3. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Update on COVID-19 Vaccinations

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:24 pm on 2 February 2021.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 3:24, 2 February 2021

Thank you for the list of questions. I'll try to go through these quickly to allow time for other questions, Llywydd. In terms of whether we can move faster on completion, that is really a circular question, because it goes back to supply. If you have more supply of more vaccines, as long as they're approved as being safe and effective, then we can go faster, and I think we've demonstrated that over recent weeks. In terms of data on the vaccines for each UK nation, we continue to have these discussions with colleagues across the UK and all of us need to be responsible for what we're doing. You will no doubt have noticed the difficult public fall-out between the European Union and the UK Government and, indeed, vaccine manufacturers. I hope we're now in calmer waters on that front now, but there is understandable sensitivity about stocks on order and stocks held. I want to get to a position where we can publish the stocks that we have, and to be clear about what we have and how that's being used. We're publishing currently wastage rates, and we have very, very efficient use of vaccines here in Wales, which is another real bright mark for our vaccination programme here in Wales.

When we get to agreement on being able to have those figures openly, then we will certainly do so. I'm keen that we're able to do so, but I do understand the sensitivity, particularly at this point in time, on what we're able to publish, and it would be useful if all Government figures in all four nations could respond in the same way as we are trying to do as grown-ups across all four nations. 

On the openness on the figures, I think we are being remarkably open. We have daily figures, we have weekly figures published by Public Health Wales, we have additional weekly narratives that actually provide some of the information you're looking for in terms of the percentage within each of the cohorts. They're published on a daily basis now through Public Health Wales, so I don't really take the point that we're somehow hiding information; we are publishing a huge amount of information so that people can see openly what is happening. 

And I think the older persons' commissioner's concerns were rather unfair, if I may say. The older persons' commissioner has had a member of her staff taking part in the vaccine programme and on stakeholder groups since the summer. She's well aware of what we're doing within the programme. She's also well aware of her ability through regular meetings with Ministers and officials, and in dealing with the programme board, about how to raise concerns. And actually, we're going as fast as possible, and the only reason we haven't reached an even larger percentage of older people resident in care homes is for the entirely straightforward reason that Eluned Morgan explained yesterday, and I have re-explained again today about active outbreaks. 

When it comes to the potential for staff not to have the vaccine and what that means for the public, that is part of the conversation that peers have with each other, as well as at a leadership level, particularly given the amount of harm that is taking place. I'd like to be in a position where our front-line staff are taking a lead. I'll look again at the percentage of that, but there is a challenge and a choice about keeping that member of staff safe and, indeed, the public. 

And then on mRNA, we will, of course, need to look at the end of this at proposals on what we'll need to do, not just with our current storage facilities where we've been able to take on board significant amounts of the Pfizer vaccine—let's not forget we have accepted significant amounts of those—but then the infrastructure for the testing of each of those, and then the release of each of those, rather, for the vaccination programme. So, we'll of course look at lessons learned both during the time as well as lessons for the future. I just don't think I'm in a position now to confirm an amount of investment that we will definitely make in the future, but it's certainly all part of lessons learning and there'll be a need for essential honesty as well as openness about that now and in the months to come.