On your point about leadership, there is new leadership at the health board at executive level, and there's a new chief exec, there's a new nurse director. In fact, the nurse director arrived shortly after the independent review had reported. So, there are clean hands at executive level, which I think is really important in building staff competence, but also at clinical director level, there's new leadership there as well. That's important too.

But it's the change in culture that is the outstanding point to be able to give direct assurance that it's been embedded that I think is most important, because this is about the assurance that I think both Vikki Howells has touched on in her conversations with staff, and I know that Dawn Bowden has had similar conversations too with constituents about making sure that the environment is one where people feel supported to raise concerns and will not feel that those concerns are being suppressed, because that is what a number of staff reflected when the reviews took place, and when I went out and met with staff in both the Royal Glamorgan in Mick Antoniw's constituency as well as staff at Prince Charles. And the assurance that that culture has changed definitively and positively for the future is, I think, in many ways the most important part about making sure that women are properly listened to. 

And I think, in terms of your second point about assurance on progress, I think I've dealt with that extensively in answer to questions already, and, indeed the independent panel is part of that assurance process, as I've indicated. 

On your first point about better care, it does indicate that, in about two thirds of these cases, 19 of the 28, there could have been better outcomes for women and their babies, and that is important not to lose sight of. The panel, though, also reflect this, that these are exceptional events. Nearly 10,000 women used maternity and neonatal services between the time in the period of review, and the vast majority gave birth to healthy babies without significant complications or adverse consequences. So, the cases reviewed are a fraction of those delivered. But it is important to recognise that these cases are the exception, rather than the norm, but the danger and the problem is that, if you ignore these cases and if you try to explain them away, then you undermine wider confidence in the whole service. And the harm that has been caused has been really significant for women and their families. That's why the review of not just these 28 but the full 160 cases that are in the scope of this clinical review are so important, and it's why the panel will stay in place until it has completed its work to provide the assurance that I know that Members and constituents will be looking for.