The following amendments have been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Rebecca Evans, and amendment 3 in the name of Mark Isherwood. In accordance with Standing Order 12.23(iii), amendment 2 tabled to the motion was not selected.

Item 7 on our agenda is the Plaid Cymru debate on funding for the national library, and I call on Siân Gwenllian to move the motion. Siân.

Motion NDM7580 Siân Gwenllian

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Regrets that, with no increased financial support from the Welsh Government, the National Library of Wales will be forced to cut jobs and severely curtail services. 

2. Calls on the Welsh Government to urgently review the insufficient funding allocated to the National Library in the Welsh Government’s draft budget for 2021-2022 and to provide the National Library with a sustainable funding settlement that will both protect the workforce of today and allow the library to expand its vital work for the future.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Given the good news that a new funding package worth £6.2 million will be available for the National Library of Wales and Amgueddfa Cymru for the next two years, I do hope that our motion will be passed unanimously by the Senedd today.

The Government statement says that the funding for the national library includes funding to support the work of implementing some of the key recommendations of the tailored review, and also to meet financial deficits to safeguard jobs and to take the serious steps needed to secure the longer term sustainability of the library. However, we do need assurances on the increase in the baseline required for the future. It's a matter for the next Government, I suppose, and the people of Wales know well which party they should support if they do want to see our important institutions becoming a core and integral part of our national life.

I have been inspired by the support that's been shown to our national library over the past few days—thousands have signed a petition; there's been support from all corners of the world. But it is regrettable that we needed this kind of campaign in the first place. Our national institutions should be a priority for our nation's Government, not the subject of a last-minute u-turn by Labour Ministers. It's interesting that the announcement on the funding was made this morning, just as we were to vote on the issue in the Senedd this afternoon. This is no way to treat one of our notable national treasures. But the national library did become a symbol of our identity as a people and as a nation over the past few days. An understanding and appreciation of the value of the institution was shown and the value of the treasures that it holds.

And let's pause for a moment and celebrate that rich, glorious heritage held within that iconic building that stands majestically above the town of Aberystwyth. This is home to some of the oldest manuscripts in Europe, the laws of Hywel Dda and the Black Book of Carmarthen, 6 million books and newspapers, pictures by Tunnicliffe, Turner and Kyffin Williams, over a million maps, the Welsh Screen and Sound Archive. The list is endless, and the treasures are so important to the rich heritage of Wales.

Maintaining and developing the national library should be a priority for our nation's Government, but, unfortunately, what we saw was a political u-turn by Labour, given increasing political pressure from all directions. We are seeing the Government having to yield and lose face as a result of increasing public anger as one of our national institutions is neglected and ignored. This funding should have been announced back in the autumn, rather than doing so now, at the eleventh hour. However, I'd like to thank everyone who did raise a voice and lobbied for that u-turn.

May I briefly mention two other decisions that Labour needs to change? The Paddle Steamer community centre and cafe in Cardiff will be demolished as a result of decisions taken by Labour on Cardiff council. They intend to do away with a historical institution and community hub in Butetown and to replace it with a housing development. Although campaigners asked for the cafe to be maintained on the site, this was rejected by Cardiff council. If we truly want to create a Wales that celebrates our culture and heritage in all its diversity, we must bear in mind that saving institutions like the Paddle Steamer are as important as saving our national library.

Labour is also happy to build a military museum in Cardiff Bay, actually scrapping the only piece of green land there, although thousands have opposed this. A successful museum provides a clear connection to the everyday experiences of local people, and Cardiff has no military history, so we have to ask the question: whose history is being reflected in this military museum? Rather than a military museum, what we need is a national museum for the history and heritage of the BAME community at the heart of that community in Butetown.

To conclude, I think the Government needs to learn lessons from what's happened over the past few days. At a Senedd committee last Friday, Labour rejected my amendments, which would have ensured that every child would learn about the history of our nation in all its diversity. The amendments were supported by the Conservatives, and I thank Suzy Davies and Laura Jones for that support. There is a wave of support building behind the campaign to teach Welsh history, and Plaid Cymru amendments will be discussed again by us all in this Senedd on 2 March. We need a decision now from Government to support those amendments. There was a strong campaign to secure the future of the national library. The people of Wales feel just as strongly about the teaching of Welsh history. So, that's just a word in your ear, Welsh Government.

Thank you. I have selected two amendments to the motion. In accordance with Standing Order 12.23, I have not selected amendment 2. I call on the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism to move formally amendment 1, tabled in the name of Rebecca Evans.

Amendment 1—Rebecca Evans

Delete all and replace with:

To propose that the Senedd:

Notes that the National Library of Wales is currently undergoing a consultation process and that the Welsh Government remains in continuous discussion with them to assess every option available.

Amendment 1 moved.

Formally. Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer.

Diolch. I call on David Melding to move amendment 3, tabled in the name of Mark Isherwood. 

Amendment 3—Mark Isherwood

Add as new point at end of motion:

Notes the authoritative evidence provided in the tailored review commissioned by the Welsh Government that the National Library does not currently receive the level of funding required to deliver its core services.

Amendment 3 moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I so move.

I speak as a user and a supporter of the National Library of Wales. And can I also remind everyone here that the Conservative group in the Senedd has deposited its archive in the national library? I do hope the other political parties will do this as well, because the preservation of our political memories is as important as the preservation of other aspects of the soul craft, if I can put it that way, of the Welsh nation.

I want to commend the principle of a tailored review. I am pleased the Welsh Government has done this, because it does bring a very precise focus. And I think this review was an excellent exercise, really exacting, and it's allowed us to make a really important decision, and I commend the Welsh Government for the announcement it made yesterday. I do think it's appropriate. I think the issue now is that we have a sustainable model for the future, and that will probably be the work of the next Senedd to scrutinise that that is delivered, but I think it would be churlish not to welcome the progress that has been made, and I've no doubt that the Minister will speak to this and the Welsh Government's approach. It's probably a happy coincidence that the events have come together this afternoon.

I do also want to commend the innovative nature of the National Library of Wales. I think, in the twenty-first century, in the era of digitalisation, for example, it really has led the way in the shift to ensure that as much is made digitally available, and then in its outreach work to ensure that these rich resources are known to people and that they're known to communities perhaps that haven't previously accessed them to the level that we would like. So, I do think that's important, and I know one of the key worries that the library staff had about an insecure funding position was that this sort of work may not be planned or carried out to the extent that it would like in the future.

I think it's also overlooked quite a lot what a magnificent national institution we have right in the middle of Wales, there in Aberystwyth. It's a really important anchor institution for the mid Wales economy, and indeed for cultural and intellectual life in mid Wales, particularly those beyond the university but also including the university. So I think, again, securing the future of the national library is important for that reason also.

And I just want to finish by saying that, really, what a great national library does—and we have a wonderful record here—is preserve the soul of the nation. It reminds us what we are, what we were, and, through that, what we might become. And it's that vision that really excites me, and that's the particular reason I welcome the investment that is now going to be made to—[Inaudible.] And I do hope that it leads to a really effective, sustainable model on an exacting basis, which of course is quite appropriate for the use of public funds, which is why a tailored review was a good approach. Thank you.

I agree with all those sentiments that have been expressed by David Melding. Of course, we had evidence sessions within the culture committee from the National Library of Wales, and explored with them, I think, the challenges they face and also the tremendous opportunities they have. And just to say, of course, I think it's in the National Library of Wales that we've deposited the Wales anti-apartheid archives, and hopefully the history of that will be written in the near future. They also hold the Gareth Jones archives and, of course, people will be aware of the recent film, Mr Jones, which has had quite international acclaim and reflects very well in terms of Wales.

I welcome very much—and I think David Melding was absolutely right that it would be churlish not to recognise it—the additional funding that the Deputy Minister has announced in respect of that and the museum. I welcome this very much, because a big concern of mine was the actual position of the people who work in it, the skills that exist there and the importance to the local economy.

I do regret the tone, turning the issue into what was almost a Plaid Cymru party political broadcast, and I regret—and I had some calls, actually, quite angered by—the comments made by the leader of Plaid Cymru, saying that we currently face nothing less than cultural vandalism by the Labour Government; that this is somehow a deliberate decision that's been taken by a Labour Government to destroy Welsh culture. I think that really is most offensive. For example, when Ceredigion—Plaid Cymru—Ceredigion council was closing libraries, we recognised the pressures on councils in austerity; we don't call that 'cultural vandalism'. Equally so, here, what we do know is that there have been major financial challenges. We have had 10 years of austerity; we know that there are also serious management issues that have arisen over quite a long period of time, et cetera.

But listen, I want to move away from that, because I just think that tone was very unfortunate in what should be something about talking about the future of one of our most valuable cultural and heritage institutions. There are major opportunities available to us: the BBC archives, the issue of digitisation. And can I say one thing? One of the real opportunities for the future, as we look forward to developing a plan of sustainability for these institutions, is within education, is the way of the interlink between these assets that they have, actually ensuring that they are not just contained within the four walls of the libraries, that we make them accessible to people, accessible to schools, accessible to people so people can access those icons of their history for the future. I think that's where the challenge is. And of course, there has to be a plan; the tailored review, I think, has identified many of those. I'm very pleased to see the work that's gone on with Welsh Government to develop a sustainable plan for the future, and I think the funding announcement that was announced this morning will make a very substantial contribution to that. Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Back in those dark days when we had no national political structure in Wales, it was a cause of pride for us that we could identify with and support our rugby and football teams, and go to our national museum and our national library. They were the focus of our nation's memory when Wales wasn't recognised as a political entity of any kind with its own Parliament. And in the National Library of Wales, we have a treasury of our history. It looks at our language, our art and our history over many centuries. It's a pleasure to be there to take pride in our rich national history and the literature that has emerged from that Welsh identity.

And what's there? As we've heard from others, we have cultural and literary treasures there: the original Welsh Bible from 1588, the Black Book of Carmarthen from 1250, the Book of Taliesin from 1350, the White Book of Rhydderch, also from 1350, the laws of Hywel Dda from 1300, and all sorts of other manuscripts of great importance to our nation. Our history as a nation and collections that are of international importance.

Now, all of this was at stake until the announcement made today, and I am so pleased that instead of listing to injustices against the Welsh nation and adding the threat to the national library to that list, as I was preparing my speech yesterday, here I am today congratulating the Government from the bottom of my heart for this announcement today, for this funding for our national library and our national museum. Luckily, I could change my speech today.

I also congratulate and pay tribute to the strong mass campaign that has brought us to this decision today. Without the awakening of our people, we would be in a very different place, and that petition, of course, was crucially important too. I thank everyone. We look forward to our national library blossoming as one of the great libraries of the world. Support the motion unamended.

It should hardly be necessary to have a debate calling for adequate funding for a national library. It's regrettable that we got to this point, but like others I should like to thank the Minister for his role in ensuring that the funding package announced today has actually been brought forth. The National Library of Wales has played an important part in my life. In fact, I spent several years buried in its vaults when I was a research student at Aberystwyth, on more than one occasion actually being locked in for the night because I'd been forgotten about. So, I have many fond memories of those years.

It is true, as David Melding said, that a library is more than just a collection of books. He said it was a repository of the soul of nation. Well, I think it is, and it's the collective repository of a nation's thoughts. It's inconceivable that it could ever be allowed to wither and die or to be damaged by neglect. We have had years of neglect, despite what Mick Antoniw said. It may not have been a conscious decision to want to vandalise the library, but it is an inconvenient fact that, over many, many years, the library has been deprived of adequate funding, and that's now been partly addressed. I think it's as well for us to recognise both of those points.

The national library is the cornerstone of Wales's cultural and material heritage, as is illustrated by the documents that it contains, which have been recognised by UNESCO as being of international importance, and among the most important documentary treasures in the world. Other speakers have mentioned some of the contents of the collection, which is 6 million books as well as, nowadays—let's be a bit more modern—7 million ft of film, 250,000 hours of video, and 150,000 hours of audio.

I think we should remember a point that has perhaps not been emphasised as much as it could have in the course of this debate, although some speakers have mentioned it, and that is the importance of the national library as a champion of the Welsh language, in fact, the centrepiece of the defence, preservation and promotion of the Welsh language. The library was founded just over 100 years ago, and the principal founding collection was that of Sir John Williams, a collection of 23,000-odd books, and that collection contained 12 of the first 22 books published in the Welsh language, including Yny lhyvyr hwnn, which was the first book known to be published in Welsh, and indeed that is the only copy extant. That is inside the collection.

There is also a substantial Celtic language collection from all the six languages of the Celtic languages group—a very substantial collection of Irish literature and also Breton literature. All, or virtually all, known books published in the Cornish and Manx languages are in the national library. So far as I know, that is the best collection in the world of these books. It's inconceivable that we could damage an institution that is so important, I would say, to the cultural history of the world.

We look at the facts: the revenue grant in aid for 2020-21 was just short of £10 million, £9.89 million. Well, 15 years ago, in 2006-07, the figure was £9.57 million. We've had substantial inflation in the meantime, so the consequence is, although there has never been a cut in the funding for the library, in effect there's been a cut, which has been administered by the process of inflation. Its useable income has therefore declined by 40 per cent in those years.

Can the Member wind up, please?

The staff, similarly, have declined in numbers from 290 to 224, so it's vitally important that we support the national library, and I'm pleased that the Government has done so for the next two years, but this needs to be made permanent.

I'd like to finish with the motto of the University College of Wales at Aberystwyth, Nid Byd, Byd Heb Wybodaeth, but also, for me, Nid Byd, Byd Heb Lyfrgell Genedlaethol.

Now, of course, the Petitions Committee will be considering a petition on this topic at its meeting on 9 February. This petition has collected more than 14,000 signatures since news of the financial challenges facing the National Library of Wales became public. The petition notes the current threat to 30 jobs at the library and the associated risk to services, and calls for fair funding for the national library from the Welsh Government. It calls directly on the Government to increase its financial support to address these challenges, ensuring that the library remains a repository of culture, knowledge and information. The petition has been signed by significant numbers of people in every part of Wales, demonstrating the high esteem that the National Library of Wales is held in across the globe. I am pleased that we have the opportunity to discuss this important issue today, and the Petitions Committee will be paying close attention to the points raised when we consider the petition next week. Finally, on behalf of the committee, I wish to welcome the £2.25 million rescue package to protect jobs at the National Library of Wales. Going forward, we'll hopefully be able to consider the petitioners' reaction to this financial package at the meeting next week. Thank you. Diolch.

We can protest to save a library, it would seem. I’m pleased that the context has changed so much overnight. Winning this argument is significant, not only to secure jobs within our national library, although these are very important indeed, but it is also a step towards safeguarding the future of our culture. The future of the national library is an issue of national importance. I’ve received e-mails from all parts of the country. It has taken hold of so many people. Gelligaer Historical Society has written to me, quoting an article from The Cambrian News and Merionethshire Standard from April 1915:

'The authorities will probably experience some little financial difficulty in the immediate future, but when the present unhappy war is over, the people of Wales will undoubtedly repeat the work to which it has so creditably put their hands and hearts to accomplish.' 

After all, when the library was established, it was supported by thousands of working-class people, including the miners of the Valleys. Thank goodness that that battle has been won again in the face of Government philistinism so that the sacrifices made by those people are not in vain. Because it wouldn’t have been the role of Government to condemn the library; it’s the property of the people of Wales and we came so close to losing that.

The library is a storeroom for our history; the laws of Hywel Dda, the Black Book of Carmarthen, the books of Aneirin and Taliesin, our memory, our foundation and our light. Losing such treasures wouldn’t have been our tragedy only. We would be losing touch with our past and cutting our links with future generations. We would be extinguishing the light and destroying our path back. How close we came to seeing that light being extinguished, because libraries are also candles. When the barbarians sacked the library of Alexandria, the light went out for centuries. As Emyr Lewis said:

Gone knowledge, gone worlds—gone stories / gone the wisdom of centuries / without libraries, gone all of value / into a darkness without dawn.

The people of Wales have succeeded in supporting a gift here. We thank them. They persuaded the Government to keep the lights on. This has shown how fragile the situation was. We came so close, as Huw Williams from Undod warned. We came close to being a nation that lost its value. We came close to disenfranchising future generations because of bureaucratic arguments. Thank goodness that enlightenment won through. The Welsh Government should not take our heritage for granted ever again.

I now call the Deputy Minister for Culture, Sport and Tourism, Dafydd Elis-Thomas. 

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. You won’t be surprised that I won’t be responding to any rhetoric or personal attacks. I have spent more time in the national library, possibly, than any other public building in Wales, apart from the Senedd itself. I am disappointed that nobody locked me in overnight, although I do understand that that did happen, or almost happened, to Neil Hamilton. But in all seriousness, may I just set out the position clearly?

The Government has been working closely with the national library and the museum for an extended period of time in order to understand the long-term requirements of these institutions. We have also been studying in detail the tailored review. It's important to explain, perhaps, what a tailored review entails, because it's an independent review, an audit on how an institution works, and that report has been of great use to us in reaching our decision. It was published in November. And in case there is any misunderstanding, we accepted the recommendation of that report in November, and we did move to a position where there was an increase in the capital budget following the recommendation made within the report, and that baseline will be safeguarded. But of course, I, as a Minister whose time in office is coming to an end, cannot tie a future Government, but the principle is that we certainly want to ensure that the budgets of these two national institutions, from here on in, will be stable.

The written statement published this morning on funding for our national cultural bodies sets out the Government's commitment to the library and to the museum, and demonstrates our ambition to ensure its long-term prosperity. The additional funding of £6.2 million over two years will safeguard jobs in both institutions and will ensure their viability and ability to get to grips with the strategic challenges they face. This investment follows very significant investment in St Fagans before I took responsibility for this portfolio, and it also anticipates further investment in the future in the museum for north Wales, the slate museum in Llanberis.

I am very keen to note that I do expect to see notable changes in the library as it deals with the other recommendations of the tailored review. It's easy for us to applaud the importance of national institutions created at the beginning of the last century, but it's also crucially important that those institutions are appropriate, efficient and meet the needs of the first quarter and the first half of the twenty-first century, and that's why we have invested in digital provisions as one of our priorities for the library. Discussions between Government officials and library officials and library staff will continue, in order to ensure benefits and stability for the future.

The additional funding provided comes with conditions. These conditions, as has been mentioned, will mean that there is greater commitment to diversity, sustainability, digital transformation, and the work of reaching out to communities the length and breadth of Wales. A national library is not a building on the top of a hill in Aberystwyth; a national library should be a building that serves the nation as a whole, and I do think we can learn from the performance of the museum in that regard. The library has a great opportunity, I believe, now, to bring us out of the situation we're currently facing giving the public health crisis.

I make no apology that we published the statement that we published at 9 o'clock this morning. There are huge pressures on the budgets of all Governments. Decisions on additional funding are part of a much bigger picture. We are facing a public health crisis of great gravity. We are pleased that we are able to come to a position of full agreement within Government, and I very much hope that this will mean that we will be able to continue to rely on cross-party support on the future of this institution.

Just one brief word of warning—not a criticism. I spent most of my political life in opposition. Nobody was asking me to prioritise anything, but I did have a few experiences where I was responsible for public bodies, and I learnt so much during those times. It's easy to make pledges about increasing expenditure without saying where that additional expenditure will come from. I think it's important that we are honest about this on all occasions. 

We will continue to work with the library to develop the action plan in response to the tailored review. And in terms of the current consultation, we will be continuing with the discussion on the next steps. I am grateful to those of you who contributed to the debate today, it's been one of the most intelligent debates that I've heard in this Senedd in terms of its scholarly references. And if what you consider politically as a crisis for the library has encouraged us to have an intelligent debate in the Senedd, then there has been some benefit from this scenario. Thank you very much.

I'll now call those Members who have requested to make a short intervention. Darren Millar.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I just wanted to say how pleased I am that this debate is taking place today, and I just wanted to put on record my thanks to the national library for its incredible support for the St David's Day parliamentary prayer breakfast in recent years, at which the library has brought some of the treasures from its archives, including some of the early Welsh bibles—the Mary Jones bible, the Evan Roberts bible, the first edition of the William Morgan bible, and, of course, more recently, the bible that has been celebrating its four-hundredth anniversary, the Parry bible. I think that they are a wonderful partner for us to have as a Senedd, as another national institution that the public should be able to take pride in. So, I'm pleased with the announcement of additional support. I do think it's a shame that it's taken so long for the Minister to get his wallet out and deliver it, and I think it's also a shame that the announcement was made to the media before it was made to this Senedd.

I now call on Helen Mary Jones to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'd like to thank everybody who has participated in what has, on the whole, been an excellent debate. I will not repeat, in the short time left to me in this debate, the comments of my colleagues, with which I clearly concur. I just want to respond to some of the points that Members from other political parties have made.

I have to begin with Mick Antoniw. I would say to him that these decisions are political issues, that these priorities—. Politics is all about priorities. And you can tell, whenever a governing party accuses an opposition of playing politics, that that governing party is on the back foot. Now, I'm delighted, as I'm sure we all are, with the announcements that have been made today. But I would say to Mick: how does he, as a strong supporter of trade unions, feel about the distress that the staff and the library have been unnecessarily put through by a Government that could've made this decision weeks, certainly, if not months ago? And I will take no lessons from him or any other Member of the Labour Party about how to campaign as an opposition. I can assure him that, when libraries and cultural institutions have to be changed by Plaid Cymru county councils, Labour Members campaign vigorously against it, as we have campaigned in favour of the library—and they are right to do so, because it is the job of the opposition to oppose.

I'd like to associate myself with much of what David Melding has said. I won't repeat it all. I think that he's right that the tailored review process has been excellent and very revealing, and his praise for innovation at the library—and here I do agree with Mick Antoniw about the capacity for the library to innovate even further and to contribute to the education of our young people, especially in the context of the new curriculum. I will repeat what David Melding said about the library being the soul of the nation: what we are, what we were, and what we will become. I think that, as we look forward, we need to remember that. I was touched by what Darren Millar said about the library's role as a partner, and I concur absolutely with his praise for how they preserve our heritage, and how they make that heritage available. Hopefully, this investment will enable them to do even more of that.

I'm grateful to Janet Finch-Saunders for her contribution. The number of signatures to that petition in such a short time, I'm sure she will agree, shows how important the library is to people the length and breadth of Wales. This isn't, and here I do agree with the Minister—this is not a building on a hill in Aberystwyth. This is a central part of our national culture; a treasure for us all, wherever we live. I know that the library will want to use the resources now available to them to make some of their collections more accessible through more digitisation and more partnerships with local libraries and local museums.

I won't dispute the Deputy Minister's account of what has occurred, but I would point out that the Government had the draft report of the tailored review for months and months and months before they published it in November. Despite the pandemic, and nobody is denying the pressures that the pandemic has put on the Government—. Despite the pandemic, they had ample time to make the decision for these additional resources. There was no need to go up to the wire.

I will end, Deputy Presiding Officer, by saying that, of course, these additional resources are really welcome. They have bought breathing space for our national institutions, and that is breathing space that the next Government will need to use to work with the library and with all of our national institutions to ensure appropriate investment and a sustainable future. We in Plaid Cymru believe that we need a national strategy for our national institutions, and we need to be planning for their future, long term. In that, in Government, we would seek to develop the kind of cross-party consensus that I think we have seen the beginning of here today. 

Deputy Presiding Officer—

You will have to wind up, please.

A last sentence or two, and I appreciate your indulgence. As everybody has said, this debate demonstrates the vital importance of the national library to our national life, and of all our national institutions. The investment is welcome, but the staff should not have been put through this. I urge this Senedd to support the Conservative amendment and our original motion, and not the Government motion, which simply states the obvious. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion without amendment. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see objections. Therefore, we will defer voting until voting time. We have reached voting time, so in accordance with Standing Order 12.18, I will suspend the meeting before proceeding to voting time. 

Plenary was suspended at 17:03.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:07, with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.