Cheap, cheap points, which on the one hand makes contributions in the Chamber welcoming our different approach, and on the other hand in political propaganda belittling it. So, I was disappointed to see that, but not surprised.

But what we're really trying to do is—. He asked what we'd learnt, and I think through the provision of PPE—. He nods his head, but he can't score cheap political points and then try and elevate himself as a great statesman of the age at the same time—the two don't fit. What we're trying to do, through PPE procurement, we've learned a lot of lessons from this of how difficult it is, because during the pandemic, we have seen the difficulty of getting Welsh firms to be able to supply into the public sector quickly, and there were three particular barriers on PPE that we struggled with. One was procurement policy itself, and we're currently revising the Welsh public policy statement to learn the lessons from that. Secondly, there was the issue of price. We are able to buy masks, certainly in normal times, in China for considerably less than we can buy them in Wales, but as I mentioned in the statement, that supply chain is not resilient, so there's a genuine debate to be had about what is the premium we think it's right to pay for locally sourced goods, and that is an ongoing discussion we're having. And then there was the issue of standards and certification, because you can't simply produce a mask and then flog it to your local hospital. It has to meet medical standards. So, there are some real granular issues there, which definitely have slowed us down and created some genuine policy dilemmas for us, which we are working through.

But we do think there's huge potential in the medium term for this agenda, not just in things like low-cost things in PPE, but in high-cost things like orthopaedics. For example, in hips. The UK imports something like £1.2 billion worth of hips and orthopaedic joints every year from high-cost countries, and we could be making those things ourselves. So, there is a big reform agenda, that if we get it right, Wales's small and medium-sized enterprises can genuinely benefit from.

But the devil is in the detail, and it is difficult, and Russell George rightly pointed out that some of the problems are within the small and medium-sized enterprises themselves—their capacities to be able to win procurement contracts and so on. Cross-departmental working, as he rightly says, is a challenge for us too. None of this is easy, but we are building the road as we travel and we are learning as we go. From the trials that I mentioned, there are a number of successes that we now hope in the next financial year to start scaling, and keeping learning as we go.