I think there are several things there. The first is to acknowledge that there was already a challenge with orthopaedic delivery in north Wales before the pandemic. We were seeing an increase in activity in north Wales, but it wasn't keeping pace with demand coming in, so lists were broadly getting longer on orthopaedic treatment. That is undeniable.

The second point is that, during the pandemic, though, that has been exacerbated even further. As Members will be aware, there's been significant interruption of normal care and treatment, so the orthopaedic waiting list has grown even further over the course of the pandemic, not just in north Wales, but across the whole country. Our challenge is how we get to a sustainable system and how we deal with the big backlog that has built up as well. With respect, I don't think that partnerships with NHS trusts in England are likely to address the backlog or a sustainable service. The reason for that is that, actually, the system within England needs to get to a point where it is more in balance as well. We won't be able to buy our way through this by undertaking more activity in the private sector alone. We are going to need to have a proper approach that I think is consistent with NHS values here in Wales.

It's worth reflecting that England also have a significant increase in their orthopaedic waiting lists; there isn't going to be capacity in the NHS in England for us to make use of for some time to come. So, that means we need to find an approach here in Wales that understands the nature of our challenge, how we get to a sustainable part of our system and, at the same time, how, as to staff who are going to be exhausted when the pandemic crisis finally ends, we actually generate even more activity to deal with the backlog. This is not a straightforward challenge to address, and we'll need to move beyond a simplistic 'just work harder' or 'spend more money'. We're going to need to have some innovation in the way that our NHS continues to run a public service that delivers against the enormous challenges that confront it.