We begin with group 1. These amendments relate to climate crisis and ecological emergency. Amendment 51 is the lead amendment in the group, and I call on Llyr Gruffydd to move the amendment and to speak to the other amendments in the group. 

Amendment 51 (Llyr Gruffydd) moved.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and thank you for the opportunity to speak to these amendments in the first group.

Two years ago, of course, when this Senedd supported the motion to declare a climate emergency, we became the first Parliament in the world to do so. And doing so was a clear statement that not only is there an emergency, but, of course, there's a need for us to respond to that emergency in a way that reflects the seriousness of the crisis that we face. Now, these actions are not only for us as politicians to take, but, of course, there's a role for all of society to respond to that. But it is incumbent on us as politicians to create much of the legislative framework that facilitates the action that's required. This Bill, and the amendments before you today in this group, from myself, numbered from 51 through to 58, offer us an opportunity to make sure that our education system in Wales plays its part in that respect.

The intention, therefore, of my amendments is to add 'climate crisis and ecological emergency' to the list of mandatory elements within the areas of learning and experience, alongside relationships and sexuality education, religion, values and ethics, and, of course, English and Welsh. They also require Ministers to issue a code setting out the themes and matters to be encompassed by the mandatory element of climate crisis and ecological emergency, and I also outline the procedure for issuing or revising the code.

Another area my amendments touch upon is the section in the Bill on mental health. There's the duty to have regard to mental health and emotional well-being, and I ask Members to support my amendment 57, which explicitly refers to the need to consider climate anxiety as part of that. Doing so will provide support to children and young people who request it, and ensure, of course, as well, that teacher education is provided to equip teachers with the skills and knowledge necessary to carry out their obligations under this section. Climate anxiety, as I'm sure Members will appreciate, is recognised as an increasingly prominent issue, and this is an opportunity for us to reflect that in this legislation.

I've been working on these amendments with a group called Teach the Future. Some of you, I'm sure, will have met with their representatives in recent weeks and months. They're campaigning to ensure that students in Wales are taught about the climate emergency and ecological crisis—how they're caused, what we can do to mitigate them and what our future lives and jobs are going to look like because of them. They want to see sustainability and these crises become key content in all subject areas. They want to see educators trained in how to teach about these difficult topics in a way, of course, that empowers students, and they're campaigning for the necessary funding and resources to do this.

Whilst people are aware, maybe, that there is a climate crisis, they might not necessarily be aware of what that really means to them and their lives. Educating students, arming them with that understanding, will increase public awareness and lead to that wider behavioural change that we need to see if we are to tackle this emergency successfully. Polling has shown that many people don't appreciate how serious or immediate the threat is, and with climate-related disasters increasing each year—and heaven knows, we've seen major flooding incidents in Wales of late, haven't we—it's never been more important to properly educate young people about the world that we and they are, and will be, living in.

It isn't just Teach the Future, of course, that have called for education on the biodiversity crisis and tackling climate change to become mandatory. A whole host of environmental organisations, most recently as part of the Wales Environment Link, have also been campaigning for this. Wales Environment Link reminds us that, in order to build a future generation equipped to deal with the challenges in the coming decades, we need to ensure that ecoliteracy is embedded into the new Welsh curriculum and the areas of learning. We have an opportunity to achieve this today, and I would urge Members to support my amendments. Diolch.

I will be supporting the amendments in this group. The climate crisis and ecological emergency may be the biggest challenge facing us, but it is younger and future generations who will have to deal with the impact and the costs of our inaction to date. For future generations, the impact we have had on our climate and upon our ecosystems is not just an environmental issue. They will have to be equipped to deal with the economic, cultural and political fallout, and that is why I support the majority of the amendments in group 1. The fact that young people themselves have helped draft these amendments should help sway those who are undecided about supporting them. My only concern is around amendment 57. Whilst I support the sentiment behind this amendment, I believe that section 62 already covers the intent without the need to refer to climate anxiety, which could be used to limit the scope of support. Eco-anxiety, which would encompass climate anxiety, is already recognised as impacting mental health and well-being. I will therefore be abstaining on this amendment, but will support all the other amendments in this group. Diolch yn fawr.

Jenny Rathbone.

Thank you very much. Apologies, Llywydd, for not having my headset on.

That's better.

I also met some representatives of Teach the Future, and like most young people, they are extremely concerned, as they should be, about the environment. But I think that Llyr's amendment is misguided, because I think he misunderstands what the curriculum Bill is actually doing, which is to provide a framework for what teachers need to teach, rather than telling them exactly what they've got to teach. So, I was encouraging those young people to talk to the consortia, who advise teachers on how they're going to fulfil the obligations to create the enterprising, creative contributors of the future, to ensure that they are ambitious learners with an ethical, informed understanding of our place in world. I really think that the amendment is just watering down that ambitious framework that we have created with this Bill, ensuring that teachers are able to use their pedagogy to ensure that the way they're going to teach fits the needs of their individuals pupils. I absolutely share the enthusiasm of the young people and their commitment to ensuring that we are not contributing to the problems that we now face, and that we're tackling them effectively, but I think that these problems need to be debated by school governors to ensure that all our pupils are realising just how serious the climate emergency is.

I'm deeply shocked by these amendments. The enthusiasm with which Llyr Gruffydd advocated them reminds us of the ministries of propaganda and public enlightenment in former eras. Education should be about teaching children to question, think and use their judgment, and yet what we're invited to do here is to impose some kind of received truth upon children, whereas there is in fact hotly disputed debate going on amongst academics and others who are well versed in the theory of climate change. It's rather surprising to find a representative of Plaid Cymru speaking in this way today because the birth of modern-day political separatism, I think, is to be found in the great debates in the nineteenth century about the imposition of the theological dogmas of the established church upon the children of largely non-conformist families. What we're being invited to do today is exactly what he would have opposed in another context 150 years ago.

I am a sceptic about the theories that Llyr wishes to impose upon the children of today, and I think that what we should teach is both sides of this argument. That's what true education should be about. We're not dealing with something here that is dogmatic truth; we're dealing with a subject in which there is very, very considerable uncertainty and theorising. Most of the theories are based, of course, upon computer models, and computer models work on the principle of garbage in and garbage out. What we should be seeking is to put forward not just the theories of one side of this argument, but, in fact, the theories of both sides, and then inviting those who are in the classroom to think about what the issues involved are.

Yes, no doubt, there is amongst a very tiny minority of people climate anxiety, but then there are anxieties about all sorts of things. A thousand-odd years ago, people were worried about the end of the world coming in the year 1000. Apocalyptic millenarianism has been with us for as long as human beings have been on the planet. Most recently, of course, the millennium bug was another feature of this, an apocalyptic event that never happened. I think this is a very dangerous way of trying to use a Government Bill to impose a particular political view upon the minds of suggestible children. I think it's the very opposite of education, actually. That's something that we certainly should not support in this debate today.

Climate change is not like the laws of physics. There is too little data, for one thing, upon which to be certain over a long enough period, there are too many variables, too many uncertainties, and we have a complete disconnect between the results of computer models and what we know from the world of observation. We've only had satellite data for the best part of about 25 years that are capable of giving us reliable data, and that's nowhere near long enough to draw the kind of conclusions that Llyr seems to think are established fact. What we do know about climate change is that change has always been with us. Two thousand years ago, in Roman times, so far as we can tell, the climate in Europe, at any rate, was warmer than today. Then, we went through a cold period in the dark ages. In the medieval warm period, again, we went back to Roman times, and then in the seventeenth century, as well recorded through the diaries of Samuel Pepys, we went into a little ice age from which we have been emerging slowly ever since.

So, nobody denies, actually, that there is global warming going on, but what's the cause of it is something that is hotly disputed, and it's that debate, I think, that we should be teaching in our schools today, not teaching people what is purely propaganda in my opinion and representing that as indisputable fact. Because you've only got to look at the literature, you've only got to look at the lustrous names that are associated with the political views that I'm putting forward today, to see that there's a serious debate there, and that's what true education is about. So, I think this is an anti-education set of amendments that should be thrown out today. I agree entirely with what Jenny Rathbone has just said, although our views on this subject are diametrically opposed. We very frequently agree upon the fundamentals of what we should be doing in education. I invite the Senedd today to follow me for a change and vote these amendments down.

The Minister, Kirsty Williams. 

Oh boy, Presiding Officer. I am sorely tempted to riff on the concept of false equivalence and to debate Mr Hamilton on his interjection this afternoon. What I am able to assure Senedd Members is that concepts such as false equivalence, fake news and propaganda will indeed form part of the new Curriculum for Wales, and we will indeed be equipping our children and our young people to debate some of the, if you don't mind me saying, nonsense we've just heard from Mr Hamilton.

Can I very much welcome Llyr Gruffydd back to debating education issues with me? It's very welcome indeed. I know that Llyr understands well the rationale and the concepts and the thinking, the pedagogical thinking, that lies behind our approach to curriculum reform here in Wales, and I was very grateful for his support, when he was the education spokesperson for Plaid Cymru, for the direction of travel in which we were taking curriculum reform. He understands well that one of the four purposes of our new curriculum is to ensure that we have ethical, informed citizens of Wales and the world as a result of children's time in the education system in Wales. And I know that he supports that. And whilst I am very pleased that he has raised the climate crisis and the ecological emergency as an area for inclusion in the new curriculum framework, I do not believe that the amendments that he has put forward to include that on the face of the Bill are necessary.

To be absolutely clear, and for the avoidance of doubt, I recognise the importance of educating our children and young people about climate change, its causes, its impact, both here at home as well as globally, and the action that is needed to safeguard all of our futures. And of course, in Wales, we have a strong basis on which to build. We have been supporting two key climate and environmental education programmes for schools across our nation for several years now, and Members will be very familiar with the Eco Schools programme and the Size of Wales initiative. And we are already in discussion with those who deliver those programmes to ensure that they can continue to support us on our curriculum reform journey and ensure the very important point that Llyr raised, that we can equip our teachers with the knowledge and the confidence that they need to ensure that these lessons are delivered really well. These educational programmes are well-established, and all of our schools are able to engage with them at no cost, and through those programmes every year we're able to go further than the classroom and actively engage children and young people with policy development, the concept of taking action, as well as the opportunity to listen to their views and creating opportunities for those views to reach key decision makers. 

With regard to amendments 51 and 54 to 56, as Llyr well knows, the Bill restricts the number of mandatory elements listed on the face of the Bill, and there is a rationale for that. And whilst I recognise the importance of the issue, I do not accept that these should sit alongside the four mandatory elements listed. Learning on climate and environmental challenges is already mandatory in our new curriculum through the statements of 'what matters'. These statements confirm the range of issues that schools must include within their curriculum, but also provide flexibility and connections across the curriculum to build understanding of these key concepts. This approach encourages integrated approaches across the curriculum and allows for issues like climate change to be covered in different subjects.

And that's already happening in our schools, in our pioneer schools, which are our early-adopters and engagers with the curriculum. I have seen for myself the outstanding level of work that is going on. I would draw the attention of Members to St Nicholas Church in Wales Primary School in the Vale of Glamorgan, who used the concept of palm oil and the destruction of natural habitats to grow palm, and the impact on the orangutan, and the school used that topic not only to explore issues around the direct effect on orangutans, but were using it to develop their creative writing, were using it to develop their children's speaking and debating skills, were using it as a concept for art projects as well as music projects. So, they had used the concept of that topic, which was deeply, deeply, deeply concerning to the children, to actually develop skills right the way across the curriculum. And that is absolutely the embodiment, at St Nicholas, of our approach to the curriculum.

Members will have heard me speak often of Crickhowell High School in my own constituency, where year 7 were given a choice of which topic to explore. They chose plastic pollution, and every single lesson, right the way across the curriculum, was viewed through the prism of that subject. That included English, Welsh, where they were able to work with our local plastic-free shop to make that shop some bilingual signage and some bilingual advertising, because the shop didn't have that before. So, they were developing their Welsh language skills, all through the prism of the concept of plastic pollution and climate change and environmental action. So, our schools are grasping the opportunity to respond in that way.

So, similarly to amendment 52, the key concepts that form the statements of 'what matters' have been developed in a process of co-construction with our practitioners against a clear set of criteria, and Welsh Ministers have worked with them to prescribe what is included in those 'what matters' codes. So, for the avoidance of doubt, if Members are not familiar with the 'what matters' statements, we have four specific references in the 'what matters' statements that are linked to the environment and raising awareness across our humanities and science and technology areas of learning and experience. And they include the statement:

'Our natural world is diverse and dynamic, influenced by processes and human actions', that,

'Informed, self-aware citizens engage with the challenges and opportunities that face humanity and are able to take considered and ethical action', and that,

'Being curious and searching for answers is essential to understanding and predicting phenomena', and finally,

'The world around us is full of living things which depend on each other for survival.'

And as I said, these 'what matters' statements are already a mandatory part of the curriculum and I believe should provide the reassurance to Llyr that his aspiration that he has spoken about this afternoon is already catered for and is secured in our 'what matters' statements.

So, moving on to amendments 53 and 58, as I said, I do not believe it's necessary for the inclusion of an additional code, because through our 'what matters' statements, we are already taking action in this regard.

Can I turn to the issue of amendment 57? Again, I recognise the seriousness of the crisis that faces our climate, and one that I'm sure is at the forefront of many of our young people's minds; it can indeed lead to anxiety for some learners. Following consultation with the sector, I will take steps to ensure that we strengthen the 'what matters' statements to make sure that there is no ambiguity at all of the necessity to teach these subjects. But with regard to the issue of mental health and emotional well-being, there are a huge array of matters that impact on the mental and emotional health of our children and young people. And rather than taking a specific challenge that our young people face, we have worked really, really hard following the report of the committee and the advice of the children and young people's committee in the delivery of this Bill to ensure that mental health and well-being is at the forefront of what we're doing, and we have worked with that committee to bring forward amendments at Stage 2 to ensure that when designing the curriculum, headteachers and governing bodies should have regard for the total of children's health and well-being when designing that curriculum. So, again, I hope that gives some reassurance to Llyr that when designing a curriculum, children's health and mental health and well-being is an important guiding principle as well as content within the curriculum itself to support health and well-being. Therefore, I would urge Members to reject the amendments in this group. Thank you.

Llyr Gruffydd to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much, Llywydd, and may I thank everyone who's contributed? The fact that young people have been a part of this process of working on amendments and scrutinising the Bill has been an important part of this process in terms of empowering young people and arming them with a new set of skills that will allow them to do that effectively in the future too, so it's positive that Caroline Jones recognised that.

I'm disappointed that Jenny Rathbone feels that the amendments are misguided. Yes, I understand—. The Minister referred to my early involvement, maybe, as a former member of the Children, Young People and Education Committee. I understand fully that it is a framework piece of legislation, but of course, Jenny was telling us, 'We don't need to tell them about this, because it's there'. Well, the Government has decided, actually, that we need to tell people about relationship education and sexuality education and religion and values and ethics. All I'm saying is, 'Well, given the centrality of the climate emergency and ecological crisis that we're facing in our lives, then we should be adding that as well.' 

As for Neil Hamilton's comments, he said he was deeply shocked, and I would be deeply shocked if he wasn't deeply shocked at some of the things that I say, because quite clearly we diametrically disagree on this. For him to suggest that these amendments are of a former era, well, maybe some would suggest that he would probably know. So, I'm disappointed, really, but not surprised at his contribution. 'Millennium bug'—for heaven's sake.

Anyway, okay—just responding to the Minister, then, I do understand the assertion that much of what I want to achieve is covered in the Bill. The difference is, of course, that my amendments make it explicit and ensure that the climate crisis and ecological emergency aren't lost amongst other things. It gives, in my view, this area the absolute precision focus within the curriculum that it deserves. And of course, there's nothing in my amendments that would stop any of what the Minister has said from being achieved, so there's no reason to oppose the amendments, in my view. In fact, I see them as actually strengthening what we all want to see. 

Now, the First Minister of course made some big pronouncements about the climate emergency in his conference speech last weekend. Well, you know, this is the first test, isn't it, so don't fall at the first hurdle by voting against these amendments. I appeal to Members. 

The youngest children that are currently in our education system are three years old, and most of these students won't probably leave full-time education until maybe around 2035. By 2035, we may well have already passed the 1.5 degrees target in relation to global warming, so we need to rapidly change our way of living. We all know that interests are fostered from a very young age, and early years at school are fundamental for developing a child's character, and by implementing climate education now, in this curriculum, we can make sure that children going into the world of work after 2030 are prepared for a very different world, but a world, of course, where, thanks to the education system in Wales, they are climate-aware, and they're climate-conscious citizens. So, I would urge Members to please support my amendments and, in doing so, reflect the true importance and weight that we put on this particular area. Diolch.

The question is that amendment 51 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes, I see an objection, and therefore we will move to a vote on amendment 51. Before doing so, we will need to suspend the meeting briefly to prepare for the vote. So, we'll take a brief break. 

Plenary was suspended at 16:57.

The Senedd reconvened at 17:00, with the Llywydd in the Chair.

Okay, that brings us to our first vote this afternoon, and that vote will be on amendment 51 in the name of Llyr Gruffydd. Open the vote. Close the vote. In favour 20, three abstentions, 31 against, therefore amendment 51 is not agreed. 

Amendment 51: For: 20, Against: 31, Abstain: 3

Amendment has been rejected