We move now to our second group of amendments, which relate to life-saving skills and first aid. The lead amendment is amendment 1, and I call on Suzy Davies to move and speak to the lead amendment and the other amendments in the group. Suzy Davies. 

Amendment 1 (Suzy Davies) moved.

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I move amendment 1. Members, I'm bringing these amendments back as this is the last chance that I, or, indeed, the Minister, will be able to ensure that pupils in Wales acquire that most valuable of skills, which is knowing how to save the life of another human being. Some young people, of course, have been lucky and learnt some of these skills in school already, or as members of St John's Cymru or the Red Cross or the Brownies or the Cubs or the Urdd or our cadets' groups even, just like Aneurin Metcalfe did. Just 22 years old, last week he saved the life of Bobby Gamlin after stepping in and administering cardiopulmonary resuscitation, which he'd learnt with Torfaen sea cadets. And every one of us will be grateful to Calon Cymru for tracking him down, this modest young man, to thank him, but, of course, no-one will be more grateful than Mr Gamlin and his family. 

Aneurin stepped in without having to think about it, and it's that instinct to step in that's behind these amendments. Some schools already offer a lesson in CPR especially, maybe once or twice in a pupil's school life, and the skill couldn't be easier to learn, as indeed would be the case with other basic life-saving and first aid skills, but the optional intermittent lessons don't grow that instinct, and there are too many sad stories of adults who know how to do CPR but don't step in because they are too shocked, too scared or forget in the moment what to do, whereas years of mandatory practice means that stepping in is as instinctive as reciting your 10 times table without thinking about it.

So, yes, Welsh Government has its out-of-hospital cardiac plan, and I thank the paramedics and the charities who have helped to design that, but your chances of surviving cardiac arrest outside of a hospital setting remain stubbornly high at around just one in 10, and those same paramedics and those same charities still support mandatory teaching of these skills in schools, as do members of our own Youth Parliament, families, pupils and teachers across Wales, who have seen their peers in Scotland and England persuaded by the evidence from other countries, where this population-level CPR training means that there are fewer deaths from cardiac arrest. So, there are no party political ideologies here, just a desire for a way forward to prevent unnecessary deaths.  

So, there are two amendments here, Minister, for you to consider, but there are many ways to skin a cat. And I know that you want to keep this Bill clean of additional obligations about curriculum content, but I also remember you supporting the policy objective in the past. Scotland and England have come to the same result by different routes and, for me, it's the end that matters, rather than the means. Now, we've discussed how this might be achieved, and I would be really grateful if you would share with Members how you think we might have cracked this in a different way to see what kind of response we get. Diolch. 

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Many Members will appreciate that I've found the consideration of these amendments exceptionally difficult. I was lucky enough to learn many of these skills as a teenager in St John's Ambulance in Tredegar, and, of course, it was these skills that saved my life less than a year ago. I'm absolutely clear in my mind that the national health service, for all the different things it can do, it cannot and will not and never will be able to save a life in the way that we saw last week in the centre of Cardiff. My own cardiologist and other, I think, specialists in the field are absolutely clear that it is the passer-by who sees somebody having a cardiac arrest that will save that person's life and enable, then, the paramedics and the whole range of services from the national health service to step in to ensure the recovery and the treatment that person will need to live again.

But it is the passer-by that is critical. It is the person in the house, in the street, in the Parliament, who will save that life when a cardiac arrest takes place, and I too, like Suzy, saw the interviews yesterday and saw the reports of a real life-saving incident taking place in the centre of Cardiff. But, you know, I'm also reminded of Justin Edinburgh, who was the former manager of Newport County Association Football Club. He had a cardiac arrest in the gym, and there was nobody there who was able to save his life. I'm also reminded of Noel Acreman, who was only 25 when he had a cardiac arrest in Bute Park, again in the centre of Cardiff. There was nobody there able to save his life. By the time the paramedics arrived, it was already too late. And we owe it to them. We owe it to those people, not only the life savers, but the people who lost their lives, to take action in ensuring that these life-saving skills are available throughout our community and throughout our society. But we also need to ensure that there are defibrillators available to people, so that they exist in our communities across the whole of our country. So, there is a need for a strategy to ensure that out-of-hospital cardiac arrest is treated, and there is a need, I believe, for that strategy to be on a statutory basis. It was a defibrillator that restarted my heart—a defibrillator that was based in the college—and I was lucky enough there was somebody able to cycle to that college and to get it back whilst the people performing CPR on me were able to keep me alive for that to happen. That doesn't happen and couldn't happen and wouldn't happen in too many parts of Wales. 

Members are aware that I've already put forward my own legislation on these matters, and in doing so I quite deliberately did not seek to place these matters on the curriculum. My preferred route is to place a duty on Welsh Ministers to ensure that these skills are available throughout our society. That will include schools, but I do not believe it should be limited to schools. I know from my discussions with the Minister that she sympathises greatly with the arguments that are being put and I recognise the force of the argument that she made in the previous debate on these matters, and I also recognise her position that not everything that is important can be written onto the face of the Bill. I recognise that.

I hope that the Minister will respond positively to this debate, and in doing so I want to place on record my own personal thanks to Suzy Davies and her tenacious campaigning on this matter. All of us who have had a cardiac arrest appreciate, Suzy, the work that you've done on this and the way that you have ensured that this matter has been debated not once or twice but consistently in this Parliament. I hope that the Government, both the Government today and the Government that will be elected in May, will ensure that legislation is put on the statute book: comprehensive legislation that enables not only the learning of these skills through society and throughout our communities, but also ensures that defibrillators are on hand when these things happen, so that there will be many more lives saved in the future. We also hope that there will be many more reports of young people, as we saw yesterday, who are lifesavers and not simply standing by whilst life drains away. So, I hope that we will, in voting this afternoon, not simply take one step, but recognise what the Minister is seeking to do in reforming the curriculum and put forward a more fundamental reform of dealing with and treating out-of-hospital cardiac arrest for everybody in the future. Thank you.

Can I now call the Minister, Kirsty Williams?

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I make it absolutely clear to all Members that life-saving skills are an aspect of learning that forms part of our new health and well-being AoLE? The statutory guidance as drafted emphasises the importance of learners developing the ability to respond to a range of conditions and situations that affect their physical health, and, indeed, the physical health of others, for instance, the ability to respond in an emergency, by knowing how to get help for a 999 emergency. So, there are lots and lots of situations where we need children to be adequately prepared to be able to take the action that they need to, as I said, protect themselves and others. 

However, I recognise the points that both Alun Davies and Suzy have made this afternoon. And I don't know about skinning cats, Suzy, but I do agree with you that what's important in the end is ensuring that we get the outcome that we all want to achieve. And therefore, in recognition of your highly persuasive, and, as Alun Davies described, tenacious campaigning on this issue, I have agreed to update the wording of the statutory curriculum for Wales guidance so that, in the future, it will read, and I quote:

'Schools should also consider what strategies their learners will need to be able to safely intervene to support others who may be at risk. This should include lifesaving skills and first aid.'

I hope that this strengthened wording and this approach, which will, I hope, put it beyond doubt that this is a statutory element of the curriculum that must be provided to children and young people, will achieve what you have long campaigned for, Suzy, that children leaving our schools will have had the opportunity to acquire these skills. And in the spirit of, hopefully, the co-operation that I have tried to engender throughout this curriculum Bill process, I hope that Members will resist the amendment on the promise, as I said, of revised guidance to reflect the strength of opinion that Suzy, Alun and others, I know, in this Chamber share. Thank you.

Thank you. Can I call on Suzy Davies to reply to the debate? Suzy.

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Well, what we've heard from you, Minister, is your agreement to use statutory guidance—and that's statutory guidance—to oblige schools to teach life-saving skills unless they've got a good reason not to. They should teach them. And I'm so grateful for this, I have to say. This means that schools can't just use excuses like shortage of funds or lack of skills in the school workforce; they just won't wash. There are many organisations that will come into schools and train teachers as well as pupils, and that can provide equipment, either at no cost or at very, very low cost. Of course, while there will always be individual children for whom training would not be appropriate, I challenge any school now to come up with a credible reason why they should not teach our children to save lives.

Minister, I was watching the faces of some of the Members that I can see on the screen, and I think I spotted relief on quite a few of them; there are very many Members in this Senedd who support what I've been trying to achieve with the campaign I've been fighting for the last 10 years; they showed that through support for my legislative proposals some time, some years, ago, but they've also shown their commitment to greater public empowerment in this field by supporting Alun Davies's more recent proposals. Whatever we do today, I hope that Members in the sixth Senedd don't forget what he's done here as well and what he is asking for.

So, on the basis of what you've promised today, Minister, I am not going to put any Members in the difficult position where they have to vote against doing something that they've supported, and that's giving our children these skills. You promised a statutory presumption in favour of life-saving skills, a presumption that it will take some seriously imaginative wriggling to overcome. So, Minister, I think you've done it; schools can't ignore this, so a huge 'thank you' from me. After 10 years of this, this is the best leaving present I could have wished for, I think. Alun, if you are back in May, I hope that you carry the torch on for that other legislation that you rightly ask for. Diolch.

Thank you. The question is that amendment 1 be agreed to. Does any Member object? [Objection.] You object; okay, so we'll go to a vote. No—. Sorry, Suzy.

Dirprwy Lywydd, sorry about this, but may I ask if the Senedd would be prepared not to vote on this particular—?

Do you want to withdraw?

Yes, please. I know I've moved it, but I'd like to withdraw it. Thank you.

Okay. So, there we are. Does anybody object to the withdrawal of amendment 1? No, therefore, amendment 1 has been withdrawn.

Amendment 1 withdrawn in accordance with Standing Order 12.27.