Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd, and I move amendment 13 and ask that Members bear with me on this. I appreciate it's getting late. 

Again, this group contains amendments that arise from issues of conscience, and Welsh Conservatives will have a free vote on those. However, we agree with the assertion that, should the Government view prevail, and that voluntary aided schools still find themselves in the position of having to provide two syllabuses if requested, then the cost of that extra work must be met by the state. Otherwise, you are discriminating against certain maintained schools as compared to others, but I'll let Darren Millar speak more fully to those amendments. 

Moving on to amendments 13, 14 and 15, could I begin by thanking the Minister once again for her close consideration of arguments made before Stage 2, and her introduction then of amendments that meant that all maintained schools, whether of a religious character or not, have the same relationship with the agreed RVE syllabus, namely that they all have to have regard to that syllabus? Originally, the cutting and pasting of existing words from other legislation had imposed a greater degree of observance of the agreed syllabus on voluntary aided schools than others, and that was discriminatory. 

My next concern, which hasn't been allayed, however, was that discrimination against those schools continued by imposing upon them a duty to provide two syllabuses if requested. Now that voluntary aided schools have to have regard to the agreed syllabus when deciding on their inevitably more denominational syllabus, that's been a step towards avoiding a situation where a request for a separate syllabus might be made, and I have accepted the oft-made argument by Catholic schools in particular that they've never had a problem providing a broad and balanced RE syllabus despite the religious character of their school, and have every confidence that they'll still be able to do that, because the agreed syllabus to which they must have regard, under the Minister's previous amendments, will have been agreed locally by a group of people still dominated by those of theocratic belief and principle. And the fact that there are other people in the world with strong non-theocratic beliefs should come as no surprise to pupils these days, and they should know about them. Can I just say at this point that I was assured in the Stage 2 debate that we were talking about people actively holding to a creed, if you like, rather than the passively disinterested areligious population at large?