You described independence today in The National, First Minister, as a nineteenth-century response to a twenty-first century problem, going on to propose home rule instead, an idea from the 1880s. The problem is that home rule will never solve the fundamental problem in the Welsh democratic deficit. As the head of Labour for IndyWales, Bob Lloyd, said yesterday in the Daily Express:

'For the last 100 years Wales has voted for a socialist party in domestic elections, yet hasn't got what it's asked for.'

And if you don't agree with Bob Lloyd, will you at least acknowledge that Sam Pritchard, chair of the Wales Co-operative Party, to which many of your Senedd colleagues belong, has some logic to his argument that independence is the best way to achieve a more equal society, because Wales would not be bound by the voting patterns of people in southern England. We've never voted Tory in Wales, yet we've had Tory Governments two thirds of the time. Is there any reason to think that will be different in the future?