Item 7 on our agenda this afternoon is the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021. And I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to move the motion. Vaughan Gething. 

Motion NDM7601 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves The Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) (No. 5) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2021 laid in the Table Office on 19 February 2021.

Motion moved.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I move the motion before us. The No. 5 regulations, as Members will be aware, were reviewed on 18 February and concluded that the whole of Wales should remain at alert level 4. This means everyone must continue to stay at home. All non-essential retail, hospitality venues, licensed premises and leisure facilities must remain closed. We have, however, amended the restriction regulations to allow a maximum of four people from two different households to exercise together. Those exercising together from different households should make every effort to maintain social distancing. People must continue to start and finish exercise from their home by foot or cycle, unless a person has additional needs, because of a disability or for other health reasons. In addition, the elite sport designation in the regulations was amended to recognise people who make a living from sport and designations made by sporting bodies in other parts of the UK.

We've clearly set out that our Government's first priority is to get as many children and students back to face-to-face learning as soon as possible. I'm sure we were all pleased to see foundation phase children and those sitting priority vocational qualifications return on 22 February. The Minister for Education has set out the ambition of the Government for all remaining primary school children and those scheduled to take exams this year to return to face-to-face learning on 15 March. 

Despite huge progress in rolling out vaccines and the improving public health situation, we have all seen how quickly the situation can deteriorate. Faced with new variants of coronavirus, we cannot provide as much certainty and predictability as we would like. Our approach will be to ease restrictions in gradual steps, listening to the medical and scientific advice, and assessing the impact of the changes we make as we go along. We do not want to raise people's hopes and expectations too early and then to have to disappoint them. We will give as much notice to people and businesses as we can. When we believe it is safe and proportionate to ease restrictions, then we will do so.

I ask Members to support these regulations, which continue to play an important part in adapting the coronavirus rules here in Wales to ensure they remain effective and proportionate, and are still a key part of how we can all help to keep Wales safe. Thank you.  

Thank you. Can I call on the Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw? 

As the Minister said, these regulations amend the No. 5 coronavirus restrictions regulations, which are the principal regulations on COVID, and they came into force on 20 February. Our report identified four merits points. The first identified an incorrect reference in the explanatory note to the regulations; in its response, the Welsh Government has noted the error. Our final three merits points are familiar ones to all Senedd Members. They note the Welsh Government’s justification for any potential interference with human rights, that there has been no formal consultation on the regulations, and that a regulatory impact assessment has not been carried out. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. 

We will vote in favour of these regulations today. I do look forward, however, to seeing us being able to move further in terms of pupils returning to education, whilst also making the point that the vaccination of staff could play a major role in building confidence in the ability to allow that to happen safely. 

And in terms of allowing four people from two different households to exercise together, again, I welcome that. We are moving on a step-by-step basis. The Minister will know full well that I've encouraged the Government consistently to push the boundaries of what can be allowed safely in order to help with people's well-being. Hopefully, that will mean that we could look at allowing local travel for exercise in the open air, rather than having to start and finish from home, as soon as possible. That, I think, could make a great difference for many people in all parts of Wales, particularly, as I say, when we're talking about allowing open-air activity, where the risks are far lower.

We also intend to support these regulations that move in a liberalising direction. We would like more consistency across the United Kingdom on one of them, but the regulations on sportspeople strike us as eminently sensible, and relying on regulations made elsewhere and accepting them in Wales rather than insisting on doing things slightly differently is a move in the right direction, we believe. Allowing two households, up to four, to meet outside—I think the trajectory is right, there, even if the detail is a little different.

The area I'd really like to focus on, though, is what's happening with schools. Can the Minister clarify when further detail will be issued so people can prepare more widely for that return to school? He mentioned a March date just now. Can he confirm exactly what is happening there and when we'll know more about what will be happening for others? We have just a few year groups at the foundation stage back in Wales, yet in England on Monday all children are going back to school. Now, the Trefnydd said earlier that the return of kids to school has to be done in a phased way. Well, it doesn't have to be done in a phased way, does it? It's not being done elsewhere. Why, if the United Kingdom Government can get everyone back to school in England on Monday, are we still seeing the vast majority of kids in Wales not in school, with home learning, disrupting their parents' schedules, disrupting their own learning, and a great impact on the mental health and outlook and future of so many people. We've seen plummeting rates of infections, of deaths, of hospitalisations, we've seen extraordinary success for vaccination across the United Kingdom, yet we're still stuck with this three-week, rather leisurely, review. Shouldn't we actually be accelerating a return to school? Even Nicola Sturgeon said today it might be possible to accelerate the exit from lockdown. Isn't it also time in Wales we got all children back to school, rather than lagging behind?

Thank you. I now call on the Minister for Health and Social Services to reply to the debate. Vaughan Gething.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I would like to thank both speakers for indicating their support for the regulations and acknowledge the questions within them. As Rhun ap Iorwerth knows, we are moving on a step-by-step basis, in line with the scientific evidence and public health advice. I'll come to that again when dealing with one of Mark Isherwood's questions—sorry, Mark Reckless's questions; I do recognise that the two Marks are slightly different, albeit Mr Reckless is often more consistently supportive of the UK Government's approach on easements.

On your questions around vaccination, Rhun, as you know we've discussed this many times in both the informal briefings and in committee and indeed in the statement. I recognise you take a different view to the approach of the Government in following the JCVI advice, as you are perfectly entitled to do. 

On your question about improving people's well-being with further easements, that is very much in the mind of the Government, about how with further easements we can take account of improving people's mental health and well-being and have physical exercise, access to the outdoors, as the weather is generally improving—although I do touch wood when I say that; I remember not so long ago having snow in April. But we are thinking about what that might mean, and we're contemplating whether the next phase may include a period of 'stay local'—you'll recall that England has already indicated that it's likely to enter a period of staying local as well—and whether it may be possible to have further easements that would allow people to travel for outdoor activity in particular. That is very much one of the things we are considering, although choices haven't definitively been made, because we want to understand what the data tells us at the end of this current three-week review before we make the choices about the future.

On Mark Reckless's comments about supporting the regulations as they provide some greater elements of liberalisation, compared to where we were previously, that's to be welcomed. On your point about UK-wide consistency, it may be possible for us to do more, but that would require us to have conversations at an earlier point in time. There is a greater level of UK-wide conversation than there was in the middle of the summer—that is true and that's to be welcomed actually. Even though we don't always agree with other parts of the United Kingdom, we have never gone about—despite his charge—just being different for the sake of it; we've done things we think are right, and other people are, of course, entitled to disagree with the choices that we've made. But for there to be an even greater prospect of there being common UK-wide choices, that would require a more open conversation and one that would need to involve the Prime Minister. The challenge of the meetings chaired by Michael Gove for the UK Government is that he still needs to return to the Prime Minister, and there are times when there can be a difference in nuance and direction, and that's important. I would welcome very much a much more regular engagement between the Prime Minister and the First Ministers of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, but sadly, that has not been the case over a number of months.

On your point about schools, you're right that we could make a policy choice to open all schools on 8 March or 15 March—that is open to Ministers to do so. The point that we have made consistently is that that isn't supported by the scientific evidence and the public health advice. We've published this advice, it's made it very clear that there should be a phased return because of the impact that schools opening can have on the R figure. And we're feeling our way through this on a step-by-step basis, as Rhun ap Iorwerth indicated, because we now have the Kent variant as a dominant variant. It's much more contagious than the previous versions of coronavirus. And actually, this isn't about being different from England for the sake of it, England has made a policy choice that makes it an outlier compared to Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland. We are following the public health and scientific evidence and advice; England has made a different policy choice, as they're entitled to do. We all will look on with interest at what will happen from 8 March and we will continue to interrogate the data in making future choices. All primary schools can expect to return to face-to-face learning from 15 March and all exam years can then expect to return, and there are further discussions about if there are other things that may be possible, but the Government will confirm that once the education Minister has concluded those matters. It will either be the education Minister or the First Minister who announces that position to give clarity to learners, to parents, to carers and, of course, our staff. But I do look forward, over the coming weeks, to seeing more and more of our children and young people returning to face-to-face learning.

With that, I'd like to thank Members for their contributions and I hope that we'll receive the support of the Senedd today for these regulations.

Thank you. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I don't see any objection, therefore, in accordance with Standing Order 12.36, the motion is agreed.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.