Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:20 pm on 10 March 2021.
I'd also push back on David Rees's preposterous characterisation of the NHS in England currently as being one of accelerating privatisation. Clearly, in the late 1990s, the marketisation that we saw in England didn't develop in Wales with devolution, and, clearly, under Blair and Brown, there was quite a lot of marketisation within the NHS in England. But, in the 2010 Lansley reforms, there were some structural changes within the NHS and a legal framework that could have led to more privatisation, but the reality is those reforms were, on the ground, largely undone. Lansley was pushed out; the NHS worked together. There is a lot more co-operation, a lot less of the single market than has been seen before, and now it's proposed to change the law in England largely to remove that purchaser/provider split and make their NHS much more like ours is in Wales currently, which would it make it easier to integrate.