We now move to item 13, the Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (Wales) Regulations 2021. I call on the Minister for Environment, Energy and Rural Affairs to move the motion—Lesley Griffiths.

Motion NDM7658 Rebecca Evans

To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:

1. Approves that the draft The Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (Wales) Regulations 2021 are made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 2 March 2021.

Motion moved.

Diolch, Llywydd. I move the motion.

I would like to briefly explain the background to today's debate on the Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (Wales) Regulations 2021. Firstly, the Pet Animals Act 1951 section 1(1) will cease to have effect in relation to Wales and will be replaced by these regulations. Secondly, and perhaps more significantly, the regulations make it an offence to sell a puppy or kitten that the seller has not bred themselves on the premises. I first committed to investigate the banning of commercial third-party sales of puppies and kittens in June 2018. It has been a long journey, but along the way, we've also taken other actions to strengthen the ability of local authorities across Wales to enforce existing regulations, as well as these new regulations. 

These regulations are yet another step towards ensuring the welfare of puppies and kittens currently being bred and sold onto third parties. Their welfare improves significantly by being sold only by breeders directly to the new owner. At present, commercial third parties are able to sell puppies and kittens, which means, in most cases, purchasers will not see the puppy or kitten interacting with the mother or siblings. They may also have had to endure a number of journeys before reaching their new home.

The regulations being made today will come fully into force on 10 September. During this time, statutory guidance will be co-produced to support enforcement by local authorities, and this timeline will also allow existing sellers affected to make changes and consider a different operating model to mitigate any potential impact. I would like to make it clear that statutory guidance for enforcement officers will provide local authority officers the flexibility they require to enforce the licensing regime, which steers away from a one-size-fits-all approach. 

We are bringing in regulations that close loopholes, creating discretion on enforcement to work with key organisations involved in either rehoming or rescue activities. They provide local authorities with a channel to assess whether the animals are being used purely for financial gain via the business test, and aim to improve animal welfare, supporting informed decision making by the purchasing public. I commend the motion to the Senedd. Diolch.

The Chair of the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee, Mick Antoniw.

Thank you, Llywydd. We formally considered these regulations at our meeting yesterday morning and our report contains two merits points. Our first merits point notes that regulation 12 of the regulations allows local authorities to charge fees to cover the costs incurred in performing their licensing functions. Our second merits point indicates that concerns were raised with us regarding the consultation undertaken in relation to these regulations and potential unintended consequences. For these reasons, we decided to write to the Minister ahead of our formal consideration of the regulations, to draw her attention to these concerns. We welcome the detailed response that the Minister has provided, and we note the Minister's references to the production of further guidance and the consultation that will be undertaken. Diolch, Llywydd.

I'm delighted, actually, to be able to confirm Welsh Conservatives' support for these overdue regulations, regulations that are very similar to the Animal Welfare (Licensing of Activities Involving Animals) (England) (Amendment) Regulations 2019, which came into force almost a year ago. So, I'm still disappointed, then, that our regulations won't come into force until 10 September 2021.

As we all know, Lucy was rescued from a Welsh puppy farm in 2013—eight years ago—and Welsh Government could have been the first to respond to a serious Welsh issue and an important campaign that had clear constituent support. It's been low-hanging legislative fruit, and it's a mystery to me why Welsh Government hasn't acted sooner.

The Minister will be pleased to hear, though, that we welcome numerous aspects of the regulations, including the requirement in regulation 4.2(a), that

'The local authority must—

'(a) appoint one or more suitably qualified inspectors to inspect any premises on which the licensable activity or any part of it is being or is to be carried on' and we support the limitation of licences to one year and the requirement for animals to be kept at all times in an environment suitable for their species and conditions.

I do have a few questions, though, Minister. Local authorities will be responsible for the enforcement of the regulations. You advise that there's no additional cost to them, and we appreciate the fee flexibility, but, at the moment, we have no idea from you as to the number of inspectors currently in Wales and how many more that you will expect to carry out these regulations, because that's certainly going to affect the fees that councils can charge.

Regulation 26 requires each local authority to provide some details as to the number of licences enforced in the area and the average level of fees, but it doesn't seem to include the number and reason for licence breaches. I'm wondering why that's not included in these regulations. The Dogs Trust has highlighted that one attendant could be responsible for up to 180 adult dogs and puppies at one time, and I'd be pleased if you could clarify how we can be confident that their welfare needs will be met with just one Schedule 2 visit a day.

And just to finish, Janet Finch-Saunders, I think, asked you about the capacity of rescue and rehoming organisations in Wales, to continue the rehoming of animals rescued from situations of neglect, if they have to wait until their kittens or puppies are at least six months old before rehoming the parents, and you advised her that local authorities have an element of discretion in considering whether legitimate not-for-profit rescue and rehoming centres would need a licence. I'm just curious why you've not addressed that in these regulations.

And then, just one more: the Companion Animal Welfare Group Wales has explained to us that there needs to be further bespoke consultation on animal welfare, and I wonder why that hasn't already happened in the course of a five-year Parliament. But do you expect the next Welsh Government to do that, regardless of what colour they are? But, just to confirm, Minister, we'll be voting for the regulations today and agree with you when you called this a step forward just a few moments ago; it's just a shame it's not the final goal. Diolch.

I'd like to thank the Minister for bringing this motion forward. As we've heard, it's later than many of us would have wished, but Plaid Cymru will be supporting these regulations too, because it is an area that needs to be addressed, and we have waited longer than perhaps we should have waited, to get to this particular point.

Now, I too want to raise the concern that many in the sector have mentioned in terms of the exemption of rescue activity and rehoming. Now, you mentioned that there was discretion for local authorities. Well, there's a risk there that that could lead to all sorts of inconsistencies across Wales, so we need clarity on that. We know that in Scotland, the situation has been dealt with by introducing a registration and licensing system for such rehoming and rescue centres. Now, I don't know if that's something you're considering, and if you are, is that something that the Government could move on quite swiftly after the election? I don't know, but I would like to hear more from you on getting that clarity on the risk that some of the centres and organisations that do rehome dogs and cats won't be able to operate as they are currently operating.

This question of capacity I think is important. I want to hear more from the Government as to how exactly local authorities are going to meet this demand, because we can pass the best regulations in the world, but unless those regulations can be enforced effectively, then, clearly, they're not going to have the impact that we would desire. So, in the spirit of seeking to ensure that these regulations do have the desired effect, then I would ask you to tell us a little more about ensuring that local authorities have the necessary capacity. Thank you.

The Minister to reply to the debate—Lesley Griffiths.

Diolch, Llywydd. I'd like to thank Members for their support. I'd also like to thank everyone who has contributed to getting these regulations to this stage, and I'd like to begin with my officials in the office of the Chief Veterinary Officer for Wales, who have been well supported by other colleagues throughout Welsh Government to ensure that we were able to bring these regulations forward before the end of term. I also want to acknowledge the determined lobbying by individuals, and that includes Members of the Senedd and also third sector organisations on this issue.

In relation to some of the questions raised by Members, I will just emphasise again that these regulations go beyond Lucy's law, and I'm pleased that Members from opposition parties are happy to support the regulations going forward. I think what the banning also does is encourage respectful and responsible attitudes, and that's particularly important to me for developing the attitudes of children and young people towards animals, and will also contribute to an improved perception of licensed premises, and empower local authorities to take action if they feel they've got concerns about how puppies and kittens are being bred and sold.

The new regulations will provide a legislative mechanism for future opportunities—Suzy Davies asked that question—to include an update of the licensed animal welfare establishments, and that includes, but not exclusively, all stables, for instance, riding schools and dog boarding establishments. It may also be appropriate to consider the inclusion of the dog breeding regulations when these are reviewed in the future. The local authority enforcement project is a three-year funded project, and that's going to gather further data and information on how best to enforce the regulations, but also on what could be done to improve them.

It's not the policy intent to introduce a new licensing regime for rehoming centres, but I think it is really essential that we don't apply blanket exemptions within these regulations, which then may introduce opportunities for exploitation. So, it will be possible for a local authority to apply their discretion and consideration as to whether the legitimate not-for-profit rescue and rehoming centres require a licence.

In relation to the financial impact for local authorities, the possible impacts of the new legislation are considered in the explanatory memorandum and regulatory impact assessment, and commercial third-party sellers already need to apply for a licence, but they're already subject to ongoing inspections. And local authorities will be able to set the licence fee to meet those anticipated costs of registration, inspection and enforcement by charging a fee for the issue of a licence.

I think a ban on commercial third-party sales of puppies and kittens will go some way to rebuilding Wales's unfairly—in many ways—damaged reputation with regard to dog breeding, and it will better educate and protect the public in making informed decisions prior to purchasing a puppy or kitten. I think it does represent a big step forward today for animal welfare in Wales, and I'm pleased that Members have indicated that they will be supporting today. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? I don't see any objections, therefore the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.