4. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Economy and Transport: 'Llwybr Newydd: a new Wales transport strategy'

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:00 pm on 23 March 2021.

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Photo of Lee Waters Lee Waters Labour 4:00, 23 March 2021

Dirprwy Lywydd, a number of points to address there, and obviously I'm conscious this is the penultimate session of the Senedd before the election, and Russell George is in election mode, and I obviously factor that into my response. It's a different Russell George who chairs with great consensus the Economy, Infrastructure and Skills Committee, and the same Russell George who signed up to a report that said we shouldn't be building new roads, we should be maintaining existing ones. So, his thinking has developed rather rapidly in the last couple of years.

He says we haven't delivered for his constituents, and I certainly seem to remember him welcoming the Newtown bypass, but again, his thinking developed rather rapidly in the couple of years since then too.

He's wrong to say that the £200 million is over 20 years, it's not. It's for next year, and we are putting our money where our mouth is. We are putting investment in behind the priorities in the Wales transport strategy around modal shift. We are prioritising public transport and active travel, and we are continuing where we have commitments for road-building schemes as well. This is a mixed approach.

But he says, were he Minister, he would deliver the three priorities in the plan—he agreed with the thrust. But the whole premise of the plan is to deliver modal shift targets, is to reduce car use. So, he's complaining on the one hand that we are not—. He says traffic volumes are increasing, he says we haven't built the infrastructure, he says he agrees with the plan to reduce car use, but then criticises us for not building more roads. So, there's a muddle of thinking there, if he doesn't mind me saying so. Those things are not compatible.

If we are going to achieve net zero by 2050, the evidence is very clear: we have to reduce car use. The figures in the strategy commit to a 5 per cent reduction in car mileage by 2030. Now, that is going in the opposite direction than we've been going, but it is not particularly radical bearing in mind the Scottish Government over the same period are looking for a 20 per cent reduction in car mileage use. So, it is going to be a challenging target to achieve, but it is not as radical as it might have been. We did look at a range of scenarios, and we went for the most conservative of the scenarios. Now, whether or not that can be sustained in the light of the evidence as we go forward and as we meet our targets, that remains to be seen, but it's putting us on a new path, and that's the important thing. So, the figures that we've come to—he asks how we get those figures—they were based on substantial analysis for us of the different trajectories to meet the climate change goals, and this was seen to be achievable, a stretch, but an achievable target to get us onto the right path.

He asks what does it mean for rural Wales; well, I did provide him with a report that we had commissioned on a particular set of breakdowns for rural Wales and what this would be like, and I'd be happy to provide that to the committee as well, even though it's a little late in the day. But I think it does show that we have put a lot of thought into how we can get this trajectory delivered, but it is going to be a challenge for the whole Senedd. I would say to Members, it is no good any of us signing up to climate change targets and then resiling from the practical impact of the measures we need to put in place to achieve that. It's all very well for us to play to the gallery on local schemes that are long-cherished in many parts of Wales, but if we're going to put us on a different path, that means a different set of approaches, and we need the courage of our convictions to see that through. I'm sorry that Russell George's thinking has developed quite a bit, I might suggest, but I think there's a way to go if he's sincere about delivering the targets he signed up to.

I believe we might have lost connection with mission control.