Absolutely, David, and can I tell you that one of the joys of being in this job has been for me meeting regularly with those third sector organisations who do such a terrific job on the front line in our communities, and Mind and Hafal are two of those organisations that have made a really significant contribution? One of the key things for me is that we have to make sure that we're not just measuring hitting targets in terms of timetables. We have to get a sense of what are the outcomes like as a result of that intervention, and so listening to what people have to say is absolutely key, and certainly something that I was very happy to do earlier this last week was to speak and to listen to children involved in the Cardiff and Vale youth health council and also, on the weekend, the national youth stakeholders group, because I really think that listening to people who are making use of our services is absolutely crucial, because we need to know from them what works, and if it works.

But certainly, in terms of the stigma, you will be aware that we as a Government have determined that we want to continue to support Time to Change Wales. I was absolutely shocked that the Conservative Government in the UK decided to cut that programme in the middle of a pandemic. It really was a shocking decision, I think, by the Conservative Government, but I can give you an assurance that we will continue to fight the stigma associated with mental health, and I do hope that that is something that has changed during the pandemic—that people are more prepared to talk about their anxieties and to realise, actually, that they can reach out and people will understand that this is something that is absolutely not out of the ordinary anymore.