5. Will the First Minister make a statement on safety on trains during the pandemic? OQ56708

Thank you very much to Siân Gwenllian, Llywydd. The COVID pandemic has posed major challenges for all train operators. Safety for staff and passengers is a key concern. Balancing demand, capacity and safety is a daily challenge, as society emerges from previous levels of restrictions.

Constituents in Arfon understand why cafes and restaurants are concerned that their customers maintain social distancing and adhere to test and trace protocols. And that of course is a requirement under the law, to prevent the spread of COVID. But my constituents don't understand why similar guidance aren't provided for Transport for Wales trains, where there is no social distancing on carriages, and no track and trace in force, so there is a genuine risk that the virus is being spread across the nation. Could you give an explanation about this difference, please?

Well, I could attempt to do so, of course. Because the context is different. And those issues that Siân Gwenllian has raised, and those experiences that people have had, of course I'm aware of that, and I have seen what's been happening. But these are difficult practical challenges. Passengers on trains do enter and leave trains in every station, which is utterly different to the situation in a cafe of course. And what the people running the system are endeavouring to do is to assess a number of different factors that could lead to risks within the system. It would be possible to run more trains, and in so doing reduce overcrowding. But that would mean that we would have to cut down on the current hygiene regime, which in itself reduces the risk of infection, particularly for the staff working on those trains. So, there are no simple solutions to these problems. What I am convinced of is that everyone working in this area is working every day to try and run the system in a way that keeps people safe—those working on the railways and those train passengers too. And they're doing it in a scenario that is very challenging indeed, when we are trying to reopen society. We are trying to find more possibilities for people, and when they do travel in increasing numbers, then that's going to be challenging for the people running the systems that we have in place.

First Minister, I want to just agree with you on exactly what you said—that I commend all of the transport operators who have been working under such difficult circumstances. But I also welcome the announcement that Transport for Wales is to receive £70 million to help in meeting operating costs during the pandemic. It comes on top of the £153 million of emergency funding provided to TfW last year. Could you advise me, First Minister, how much of this funding was and is required for safety measures on trains, such as social distancing, new notices, extra cleaning and sanitisation? And also, First Minister, when do you expect to know how much additional funding TfW will require to meet operating costs as restrictions ease in 2021-22? Thank you.

Thank you very much for that important supplementary question, and indeed for pointing to the millions of pounds that have had to be invested, not simply to keep the train system safe, but to keep the train system running at all. If during the last 15 months, the train system had had to rely simply on the fare box, as it's called—the amount of money that it raises from the travelling public—then there wouldn't have been a train running anywhere in Wales. And yet we know how vital public transport is to so many of our fellow citizens. So that, I think it's £177 million that was made available last year to keep the railways working, and the Member is right that there is another £70 million set out in the first supplementary budget that we will provide to go on supporting the system, through until the autumn. And it is exactly as the Member said. Of course, it supports all those safety measures that are taken every day, but it also supports a simple revenue base of the system, while passenger numbers are still suppressed because of the public health emergency. 

I think the Member is right as well, Llywydd, that beyond the autumn we are likely to have to provide further assistance to our public transport system—trains and buses—to allow them to expand the number of passengers they are able to carry safely and to go on operating under the continued restrictions that coronavirus will bring. We'll work on that together with the industry, and we'll bring forward further proposals later during the year. In the meantime, the system does have the confidence that comes with knowing that additional funding has been identified that will help them to continue to operate from now right through until the autumn.  

First Minister, I recently met with Transport for Wales to discuss the Treherbert line service. I know how difficult it's been for commuters and Transport for Wales staff with reduced services and the need to keep a social distance. I left the meeting feeling optimistic. There are plans to increase the number of carriages and services from September. So, last weekend, I was really disappointed to receive complaints from Rhondda residents who were stranded in Cardiff due to services being cancelled with no alternative transport provided back home. Will the First Minister meet with me and Transport for Wales to address the problems on the Treherbert line, and to discuss future plans for the Pentre Barracks site recently acquired by Transport for Wales? 

Well, Llywydd, I thank the Member for what she said about the meeting that she had had and the plans that Transport for Wales does indeed have for additional services. The additional services, including services to Treherbert, are planned to begin at the end of August, so that they are in place prior to the restart of the school term in September.

Look, I completely understand the frustration of people who were caught up in what was a signal failure around Cardiff Central station late last Saturday night, but it was just one of those technical things. A signal failed, trains weren't able to run, and, while Transport for Wales made efforts to find at absolutely short notice replacement bus services, only two of the 16 buses they had originally ordered were able to turn up at the time when people needed to travel further afield, and by the time further buses arrived many people had made their own way home, and I know that TfW has apologised to people who were affected as a result of what was an unforeseeable technical issue.

I'm very glad that the Member has mentioned the purchasing by Transport for Wales of the Pentre Barracks site. That will enable the closure of the level crossing there, which has been assessed to be one of the highest risk crossings on the Wales route, and the Pentre Barracks site will also now be able to be used as a construction compound for the continuation of the metro transformation programme. And I'll certainly ask the Minister responsible for Transport for Wales to meet with the Member to explore further some of those developments and the issues that she's identified in her question this afternoon. 

Finally, question 6, Peredur Owen Griffiths.