6. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership: Advancing LGBTQ+ Equality in Wales

– in the Senedd at 4:38 pm on 29 June 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 4:38, 29 June 2021

(Translated)

The next item is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership on advancing LGBTQ+ equality in Wales. I call on the Deputy Minister to make her statement—Hannah Blythyn.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. June is recognised in places around the world as Pride Month: a chance to reflect on how far we have come and what we have achieved together, to celebrate our LGBTQ+ communities, and to pay tribute to the trailblazers who came before us—the activists and allies that have made what once seemed impossible possible. It's also a time to take stock and redouble our efforts to create a more equal Wales, where everyone is safe and supported and feels free to simply be themselves.

This Pride Month, I want to take the opportunity to reaffirm the commitment and determination of this Welsh Government to advancing LGBTQ+ equality in Wales. The last time a Pride parade took place through our capital city, I was proud to join our First Minister at the front of the parade. The Welsh Government has supported Pride in the past, but now we are putting this support on a firmer footing, to help with long-term planning and sustainability—not just for a single event, but in recognising the role that Pride plays as a grass-roots movement. We will be making £25,000 of new funding available for Pride Cymru this year and will be embedding this support, and substantially more, in the future. 

Importantly, alongside this, we will also be establishing a new Wales-wide Pride fund to support grass-roots events across the country. We will support smaller movements to thrive and to help ensure that every LGBTQ+ person can take part in what Prides have to offer. Further information about the new funding will be published as soon as possible, and I will share that information with Members and organisations when available. This builds on our record of support for the LGBTQ+ community here in Wales, from pushing forward with curriculum reform that embeds LGBTQ+ education, to establishing a gender identity service and becoming the first nation in the UK to offer pre-exposure prophylaxis free in the NHS. During COVID-19 we set up a bespoke LGBTQ+ venue grant and, just this month, our First Minister donated blood side by side with a gay activist who until this point had been prohibited from doing so.

In the past few years alone we have made remarkable progress, but there is still work to be done and minds to be won. We know all too well that LGBTQ+ people still face very real challenges against disadvantage, inequality, discrimination and hate. In January this year we established an independent expert panel to help set out and shape the next steps for advancing LGBTQ+ equality. In March, this panel presented their report, which included 61 recommendations under six main themes: human rights and recognition, safety, home and communities, health and social care, education, and the workplace. The work of this expert panel has been used to develop an action plan for advancing LGBTQ+ equality in Wales, and this ambitious, cross-Government plan will set out the concrete steps we will take to improve the lives of LGBTQ+ people, to tackle discrimination, and to ultimately make Wales the most LGBTQ+ friendly nation in Europe.

This plan will go out for consultation at the end of July, but ahead of this I wanted to share a few key points. We will formally establish an LGBTQ+ expert panel to help put our plan into action and hold the Government to account on progress. As set out in the programme for government, we intend to seek the devolution of powers in relation to gender recognition and actively explore the best approach to enable us to ban conversion therapy in Wales, regardless of any UK Government delays. We will also appoint a national Pride co-ordinator to support all our work in this area, the details of which will be scoped in the coming months. We know that issues being faced by the LGBTQ+ community, like others, are often multidimensional, and so this action plan will have an unprecedented focus on intersectionality and align with our work to advance human rights, including the strategic equality plan, the gender equality plan, the framework for action on disability and, of course, our pioneering race equality action plan.

Almost 52 years ago to this day, on 28 June 1969, what is now known as the Stonewall riots took place. Trans people were at the forefront of these protests, yet today still face significant prejudice, hate and discrimination. The trans community stood up for the rights of everyone in our movement then, paving the way for people like me to be able to be ourselves, and today we stand with the trans community. The expansion of the rights of one group does not mean the erosion in rights of another. We are always stronger together. On the anniversary of the Stonewall riots in June 1970, the first Pride parade took place. Pride was born out of protest, and whilst it is right we recognise and celebrate how far we have come, progress is not inevitable, and Pride remains as central today as it was half a century ago. As this Pride Month draws to a close, let’s remember that together we can continue to create change and progress, with a renewed collective ambition to realise a more equal Wales. Diolch.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative 4:43, 29 June 2021

I would like to thank the Deputy Minister for her statement this afternoon and say how much we welcome the steps she has taken in support of the LGBTQ+ community. We need to do more to ensure that Wales is not just a safe place to live, but one where we celebrate diversity in all its forms, so I welcome the financial support that the Welsh Government has today announced, especially for grass-roots initiatives.

As a party, we firmly believe that everyone in the United Kingdom should be free to live their lives and fulfil their potential, regardless of their sex or gender identity. One of my biggest concerns is the level of hate crime and abuse that people face. According to a report published by Galop, eight out of 10 respondents had experienced anti-LGBT+ hate crime and hate speech online in the last five years. Furthermore, five in 10 respondents had experienced online abuse 10 or more times. This appalling behaviour must stop. 

It is vital that the Welsh Government work with the LGBTQ+ community to ensure Wales remains a safe place for everyone, regardless of sexuality or gender orientations. It is deeply concerning that, since 2017, hate crime based on sexual orientations have risen by 13 per cent while hate crimes against trans people have more than doubled. Furthermore, almost one in four LGBT people have experienced a hate crime or incident due to their sexual orientations and/or gender identity in the past 12 months. I look forward to seeing more of the Minister's proposals to combat hate crime in particular, as I believe that we as a nation could show real leadership in this vital area.

In your statement, you set out some key areas for delivery as part of the action plan for advancing LGBTQ+ equality in Wales, and I look forward to the results of the consultation exercise once it has been completed. Whilst I welcome the formal creation of the LGBTQ+ expert panel to hold the Government to account on progress, I would also expect the Government to be open to the Senedd in accounting for progress too. Will the Minister commit to an annual debate on the delivery of the plan, to ensure that the whole Senedd can explore what has worked and how progress is being secured? Will the Minister also publish, as part of the plan, a set of key milestones to be reached and how they will be delivered, so that the the LGBTQ+ community can have confidence that you are going in the right direction? Will the Minister also outline what early discussions she has had with our public services, particularly the NHS and local government, about the importance of the workplace? Discrimination takes different forms, and the public sector, as the major employer in Wales, has a key role to play. Thank you.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 4:47, 29 June 2021

Can I thank the Member for his contributions and for his support? I think, you know, this is an area, as it should be, that we can rise above party political lines on and all strive together in the pursuit of equality, and to make Wales a safe place for everybody.

I'm pleased I was able to meet you previously, with the Minister for Social Justice, and to talk about the work, and we very much want to involve you in terms of actually taking forward the LGBTQ+ action plan, when we publish it in the summer. And I certainly take away the points you made in terms of the importance of this institution, this Senedd, in monitoring that progress as well, and I think it's certainly something myself and my colleagues can come back on in terms of actually how we can do that. And I would very much welcome that continued—the role of the Senedd, to hold our feet to the fire, to make sure that action plans become actual action and start to make a difference to people's lives and to build on the work that we've already done. And the Member touches very much on the unfortunate and sad reality that too many people still face hate and hate crime just for being who they are, for walking down the street, going about their daily business, being at work, just being outside their home. And I know that my colleague the Minister for Social Justice, in her previous role, has been in contact with the UK Government in terms of what is being done at a UK level to tackle hate crime, and it will certainly be an integral part of our LGBTQ+ action plan.

And the final point, I think, the Member made was around the role of the public sector and workplaces in terms of leading the way, in terms of being a safe space for people, and I think this is certainly a role in terms of our trade union colleagues. And when we talk about fair work and becoming a fair-work nation, actually, to be able to be yourself and feel able to be yourself in work is central to that. Because it's not just about, you know, if you're in a workplace and you feel safe, then you're able to give much more of yourself to that work, and not just for your health and well-being, but in terms of the production and productive nature of that workplace as well. 

Photo of Sioned Williams Sioned Williams Plaid Cymru 4:49, 29 June 2021

(Translated)

Well, it's a genuine pleasure and privilege to speak on this statement and to speak on the first occasion that this Senedd has had to discuss LGBTQ+ equality, and I thank the Minister for her statement.

As spokesperson for social justice and equalities, I feel passionately for ensuring that we as a nation never give up on striving for true equality for the LGBTQ+ community, and that we put inclusivity at the heart of our society. Plaid Cymru wants to see a Wales where the voices of LGBTQ+ people are heard and are affirmed in education, in the workplace, in all of our communities, and we stand shoulder to shoulder with every individual. We will continue to battle for progress and for genuine equality to sustain the rights won, and create a better future for everyone where everyone is free to live as they wish, and we welcome the financial support for Pride Cymru. And Plaid Cymru will continue to press for the right to legislate on issues with regard to equality, so that they're devolved fully so that we can ensure that this Senedd can put an end to prejudice.

It's wonderful to see that there are so many recommendations set out, which will feed into the action plan. So, I'd like to ask a little bit about those recommendations. What is the timescale for the action plan, and will the recommendations be ones that last over one term of Government, or do they look beyond that, looking to the future in terms of the criteria and the milestones that Altaf Hussain mentioned? How often will the Government—and I think this is key—report, revise and update the scheme? We spoke about the online crimes and that the types of prejudice develop and change on a yearly basis. 

The recommendations are distributed into different areas: education, the workplace, health and so on. According to Welsh Women's Aid, 97 per cent of LGBTQ+ women who responded to a recent survey state that they have experienced sexual harassment in the workplace. If that is the situation, then we need to transform the culture of our workplace as a matter of urgency. So, how are you as a Government going to take action as one unit across Government to get to grips with situations like this? I'd like to know too what financial resources are going to be available for implementing the action plan, because we have to have that infrastructure to sustain these principles.

I welcome the aim of trying to devolve powers with regard to the gender recognition Act—something that Plaid Cymru has urged frequently. Does the Deputy Minister agree with me, therefore, that there is so much more that we could do in terms of eradicating inequality if we were to devolve additional powers over justice for Wales?

Now, Pride Month in Wales should be a moment of joy, and hopefully that is what will be the case, providing an opportunity for us to celebrate our unity and our will to ensure equality. But, unfortunately, as you mentioned, we have to face the inequalities that exist still for LGBTQ+ people, as you, in your own words, reflect on what has been achieved to date. So, to conclude, what plans are in the pipeline to respond to the anti-LGBTQ+ voices that are increasing here in Wales and internationally? Thank you very much.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 4:53, 29 June 2021

Diolch—thanks. Thank you for that contribution—a really comprehensive and passionate contribution. I welcome you to your role, which you're so clearly passionate about, and I look forward to actually being able to work with you on these areas where there's a shared ambition to see true equality and inclusion across Wales. I'll do my best to try and cover all the points and questions that you raised there.

We talked again about sexual harassment in the workplace and, absolutely, we need to foster a culture where there's zero tolerance of that, and work has been done, but obviously there's still more work to be done. And I think there's a role across Government in terms of how we use all those levers of Government to make sure that is not just the message, but what's happening in practice. As I said in a previous response, there's a role for the public sector, there's a role for—. We see a lot of organisations who actually—. If you'd said to the teenage me when I was growing up that so many corporate organisations would be very quick to put the Pride flag on their Twitter profile in Pride Month and shout it from the treetops, how they are supporting—. But it's actually about how that works in practice within the workplace, and we have come a long way because they are doing that, because you could never have imagined that 20-odd years ago. But, actually, it's about what works in practice. And I think, actually, for us, as part of the action plan and the implementation of it, how we use all the levers we do have to make a difference, whether that's through just the public sector, but also through Government funding and our equality and inclusion grants as well.

So, in terms of the LGBTQ+ action plan, the aim is to consult on it, to launch a consultation in July over the summer, and then I would be very keen to work in partnership to take that forward and to involve organisations as part of that, as well, and then perhaps come back to this Senedd following that with more detail in terms of the time frame in terms of actually how we would hope to implement many of the actions outlined in that plan. I think one of the things you could say—it's probably something that's very fluid and about having milestones and having a living, breathing document that actually is something we do need to revisit. I'm very clear it's not something to say, 'Here is our action plan and now we're going to just put it on the shelf over here and then not do anything about it.' It's really clear that, actually, we could see those actions and would be able to measure them against successes and actually share people's lived experiences as part of that, because lived experiences shaped that plan, and, actually, to know whether we are having those right outcomes by hearing from people who are living through that as well.

You talked about online abuse. It takes you back; people of a certain age in the Chamber will probably remember the saying that perhaps your mum said to you, 'Sticks and stones will break your bones, but names will never hurt you,' and I don't think that could be further from the truth. I think we have to be very mindful and I think we have a position of authority, all of us now in this Chamber, to use our position to actually not just call things out but to think before we tweet, think before we speak, and sometimes the words and some of the debates you referred to now can become very toxic on Twitter, especially on social media. I think it's a responsibility on all of us not just to call that out, but to actually think and act with compassion in how we treat each other with basic dignity as fellow human beings.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour 4:57, 29 June 2021

As a person of a certain age, I remember the way in which Peter Tatchell was hounded by the press when he stood in Bermondsey 40 years ago, just because of his sexual preferences, and I hope we have come a long way since then, but, clearly, there's much more work to do. I'm sure people will be delighted that the Welsh Government is seeking powers to ban conversion therapy in Wales, because that is one of the most appalling things—to think that people could be forced to change their views and their sexual preferences.

I'm delighted that, in my constituency, an increasing number of young people are feeling confident enough to express their sexuality as not being heterosexual and wanting to link up with other people to work on good practice in our secondary schools. I was particularly struck by a young man aged 14 who approached me, asking for advice on how to get involved in politics and how to engage with other schools on good practice around LGBT groups in school. So, that's wonderful, and I'm sure the new relationship and sexuality education will play a really important part in ensuring all schools are places where children are not discriminated against because their parents do not fit the stereotype Jack and Jill chocolate-box image of a family.

I particularly welcome your grass-roots approach to this Wales-wide Pride fund, because some people are concerned that the Pride celebrations have become far too much of a commercial, corporate-backed event rather than an attempt to ensure that all communities throughout Wales are ones where people of LGBTQI preferences can feel as comfortable as anybody else as being part of their community. So, I'd be grateful for a little bit more information about how that's going to work, to ensure that it reaches all parts of Wales.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 4:59, 29 June 2021

I thank the Member for her contribution, and I know you've got a proven record in the past as a committed ally to the LGBTQ+ community and thank you for everything that you've done. In terms of the question you make around Pride, Pride has changed significantly in the 50 years since we saw the first Pride march, and it's really important that, particularly, younger people don't feel priced out of Pride. And so, I think—. Pride, as we said, was born out of protest, and actually the support for grass-roots Pride is about recognition that it's a movement to support communities and support people in communities right across Wales. 

In terms of the funding for supporting Prides right across Wales, this will be part of the LGBTQ+ action plan and be linked to future equality and inclusion funding, and I'd be keen to talk to different organisations and grass-roots organisations, Prides, to see what best would help them in terms of being able to take that forward. Because, as someone—. You talk about the value of these events in communities, and it's fantastic to see our capital city celebrating Pride, but I think you can't underestimate the impact it makes on smaller communities, rural communities, right across the country in telling people there's a safe space for them and to belong. Because, speaking personally, I've been to Cardiff Pride, I've been to London Pride, Swansea Pride, even Doncaster Pride, but none really made me as emotional as when I took part in a Pride parade through the town where I now live, where I got the bus to as a teenager to go shopping. It is a market town, a small market town, on market day, and just to see people who were just going about their normal business, doing their shopping, stopping with their children to clap and join in was something I could never imagine, and I know many others couldn't, years ago. And I think that's a recognition of how far we've come but also not to be complacent and realise there's still work to do, which this Government's very much committed to continuing. 

Photo of Joyce Watson Joyce Watson Labour 5:01, 29 June 2021

I want to thank you for your statement. It's really important that we all work together to uphold equality, and you may know that the Senedd Commission has always been proud to be an exemplar organisation when it comes to LGBTQ+ inclusion. We've worked, and continue to work, with the LGBTQ+ network, Stonewall Cymru and other partners to become a more inclusive employer, developing a culture that invites everyone to be their true selves. And that's what this is about: everyone being their true selves. So, we're proud of the journey that we've undertaken to be recognised in the top LGBTQ+ inclusive employers in Wales for a number of years, and as a top employer in the UK in 2018. And I lay this out because I feel very strongly that we have to lead by example, and I think that is an example of leading in this field.

As you've already said, Deputy Minister, this week marks the anniversary of the Stonewall riots in New York, at the end of Pride Month. So, in terms of moving forward, we have a statement, you have intent. Is it your intention to speak with both private and public sector employers to try to, if you like, copy and emulate what we have managed to achieve here with the help of others?

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 5:03, 29 June 2021

I thank Joyce Watson for her question and her work on this area as well, with other Members of the Senedd and the Senedd Commission too. I think, like you say, it's only right that the beacon of democracy in Wales, our Senedd, our Welsh Parliament, leads the way when it comes to creating inclusive and safe workplaces. And I think it goes back to what we said previously, that you can't underestimate the difference it would make to somebody by actually feeling they can be themselves in their place of work as well. 

Just to go back to a TUC survey of just a few years ago of LGBT+ workers across the UK, it found that two in five respondents had been harassed or discriminated against by a colleague, and only a third reported it to their employer. So, whilst we don't want that to happen in the workplace, people should also feel able that, actually, if there is an incident—. I hate to use the term, because it's not banter, because a joke to somebody is harmful to somebody else, but people need to feel, if something is said, that they feel safe and comfortable in raising that with their line manager or the appropriate person. And so I think credit where credit's due for the work that the Senedd has done on that, and I think it's only right that we share those examples with other workplaces and examples elsewhere in Wales of businesses that have done the right thing and that are leading the way, and, again, working with our colleagues across the trade union movement to make sure it's not the exception, it is the norm. This is what every workplace should be like.  

Photo of Buffy Williams Buffy Williams Labour 5:04, 29 June 2021

I welcome the statement from the Deputy Minister today. Some of my best memories come from Pride events in Wales. A Pride co-ordinator and specific Pride fund will only enhance the celebrations.

I cannot believe conversion therapy is still being discussed. I absolutely support today's promise to ban all aspects of conversion therapy in Wales. 

I recently attended the official opening of Loaded Burgers and Fries in Rhondda, run by Lauren Bowen, who has been nominated for the Entrepreneur of Excellence award at the National Diversity Awards 2021. I also visited Treorchy Comprehensive School to sign their wall of difference during Diversity Week. It was refreshing and heartwarming to attend a school celebrating inclusivity. Bethan Howell, a teacher at the school, speaking about her experience, has helped a number of LGBTQ+ students at the school. LGBTQ+ inclusion makes a positive difference in our schools. How will Welsh Government encourage other schools across Wales to be more LGBTQ+ inclusive?

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 5:05, 29 June 2021

Can I thank the Member for her question and highlighting some of the excellent work that is happening in schools in her own constituency of the Rhondda, but also right across Wales? I think it's really important to talk about this and also share it so we can support teachers and organisations elsewhere, and my colleague the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language, Jeremy Miles recently announced that we'd be giving £100,000 to help teachers to have the right tools and support and resources and confidence to teach in this way, not just as part of relationships and sex education, but the new curriculum, so I think, you know, a shout out to those schools for everything they're doing and for the nominations and the recognition. And also you mentioned Bethan Howell for everything she's doing, the difference her talking about her experiences made—. Because I think, as we said before, visibility is important, because you can't be what you can't see, and young people need to have those role models growing up as well.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 5:06, 29 June 2021

(Translated)

I thank the Deputy Minister.