5. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with the UK Government regarding prisons and the probation service since the election? OQ56680

The Welsh Government continues to work closely with Her Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service. I welcome the transfer of all offender management into the National Probation Service. This was completed this week. I have met with HM Prison and Probation Service officials to progress joint initiatives. 

Thank you very much, Minister. As you'll be aware, one of the major issues of the justice system in Wales is the lack of specific data for Wales. When HMPPS gave evidence to the justice commission in the spring of 2019, they said that their statisticians were collaborating with those of the Welsh Government to look at the level of recidivism.

I'll turn to English with regard to the next point, because I'll quote exactly what they said. They went further and said that a working group had been established between them and the Welsh Government

'to look at disaggregating data'  in our part of the justice system. My question, therefore, Minister, is: how is that important work going of disaggregating the data in that very important part of the justice system, to have Welsh-specific data? Diolch.

Diolch, Rhys ab Owen. You raise a very important point, a point that I raise regularly with the Ministry of Justice. In fact, I'm meeting a Minister tomorrow—Alex Chalk—and I will raise this issue again. It came so clearly through the Thomas commission analysis; it will be something I know that I will be working on with the Counsel General in terms of our justice sub-committee of the Cabinet. But that data is crucial for us to understand how we can ensure that there are better outcomes in terms of the impact of the criminal justice system on Welsh citizens.

Minister, a recent article in The Lancet highlighted the high number of deaths from coronavirus in prisons, and this is despite offenders being locked in their cells for up to 23 hours a day to stop the spread of the virus. This will be of particular concern in areas around open prisons in Wales, such as the Prescoed prison in Usk in my region of South Wales East. Would the Minister please update us about how she's working with the UK Government Minister and the prison service on a plan to tackle the spread of coronavirus in our prisons, and also how she's ensuring that inmates and communities around prisons are being protected?

Thank you, Laura Anne Jones, for that question. In fact, I met with the executive director of HMPPS Wales today and we had an update on prisons. He did say—and you'll welcome the progress report—that recovery is going well in prisons. They have four levels. The fourth level, the highest level, is when they aren't able to come out to activities and are very much confined to their cells, with level 1 being almost normal service. He actually reported to me today that all prisons in Wales are at level 2 apart from Swansea, which is going to move to level 2 later this week. He also confirmed that there are no outbreaks in prisons in Wales and that staff cases are low. He was very positive about the fact that there is close working with the devolved services that, of course, support our prisons, in terms of health particularly, which is key, but also in terms of the opportunities for prisoners when they leave prison.

I would just like to very quickly say how much I welcome the unification of the probation service. We actually did press for this and we unified it ahead of England back in December 2019. We pressed for it; it wasn't in our powers, but I have to say that a certain Rory Stewart, the former Minister, actually pressed for it as well and we achieved it. But as of Monday, everything is unified; we have a National Probation Service, which will be crucial for the communities and for the people leaving and resettling from prisons across Wales.