Well, you raise a very, very valid question. It's one we're asked many times. What do you do when you're in an impasse, where you, effectively, have a UK Government that seems to be oblivious to all the protestations, all the representation, all attempts at engagement that are made, and then the consequences of that are a deterioration in relationship?

Well, look, I think the first thing is this: Governments do not exist for eternity. Governments do change, politics is volatile, and political momenta actually change. So, I don't rule out, firstly, the importance that there are areas where we can make improvements, where there can be engagement, where there are areas of, for example, justice, that we can either deal with in respect of our own powers or through engagement. There are areas where we are engaging at the moment with UK Government in terms of constitutional change, and there have been certain other areas in terms of, for example, the delivery of justice.

But I take this view: when you are in such an impasse, when you recognise that there is a problem that the UK is on the verge of fragmentation—we see events in Scotland, and we see events that are in Northern Ireland, and we even see the pressures that are building up between the central Government in England and the regions of England—where do you actually go? It seems to me that the way to go is to actually engage with the people of Wales on the basis that sovereignty lies with the people of Wales, to build up a consensus and a momentum for support, for political support, but also to find out precisely what the people of Wales actually want in terms of their future: what should happen within Wales, should certain events occur—what should be the nature of that relationship? Because I believe that consensus, if it can be built as a result of a proper process of engagement with the people of Wales, is the strongest force that Welsh Government can have in arguing for and ensuring that there is change.

Mark my words: change is coming. The question is managing change in a particular way that is most beneficial to the people of Wales. But it will be something that will be determined here in Wales. There may be commissions. There is a commission of the Labour Party that's taking place. I'm sure there will be other commissions and events, and our process, which will be a Welsh process, will be one that will feed into any processes where there can be benefit to the people of Wales, but will also seek to build alliances with those who also see the need for constitutional change across the UK.