7. What representations has the Counsel General made to the UK Government regarding plans to require photo identification cards in order to vote? OQ56691

I have made clear to the UK Government that the Welsh Government does not wish to see voter ID required for devolved elections. We are concerned about the potential operational impact of this, along with other UK Government proposals, on the administration and accessibility of devolved elections, and on voter experience.      

Thank you for the answer, Minister. I am deeply concerned about the impact regarding voter ID and the impact it will have on the electorate in my region of North Wales. The move by the Tory Government in Westminster will very likely suppress electoral turnout, particularly amongst most disadvantaged communities. Putting up unnecessary obstacles to participating in our democracy in this way should be avoided at all costs. So, does the Minister agree with me that elections should be as open, accountable and accessible as possible, and will the Welsh Government work to ensure that photo ID is not required for Senedd and local elections here in Wales? Diolch.

Thank you for that very insightful question, and a very important question in terms of the elections Bill, which has, I think, just been published, the details of it we've only just seen. But I will say that there have been quadrilateral discussions on this; I have engaged with UK Government Ministers on this, and I have a further bilateral meeting imminently to discuss aspects of the legislation and its relevance.

The first thing I think I would say is there is a very different approach from the Welsh Government to the UK Government in elections. Everyone wants to see free and fair elections, but we want to see those elections as open as possible, as transparent as possible, as accessible as possible. We want to see anyone who would like to vote to not only be able to vote as easily as possible and as fairly as possible, but for their vote to be counted, so we're looking at a number of issues around the election system. I have to say that our approach is one of accessibility and openness, and I do not agree with the approach that's being adopted by the UK Government for the introduction of ID cards. Now, the implication may well be that in respect of parliamentary elections there will be a divergence, that they may well have a different process. I will put the arguments that we have as to why we would not like to see that in Wales. It does have implications for the administration of elections within Wales, but of course the UK parliamentary elections are a reserved matter. As far as the Senedd elections are concerned, and as far as our local government elections are concerned, we have no intention whatsoever of introducing or giving support to the concept of ID cards.

ID cards: the logic that's being put behind it is that it is about dealing with voter fraud. Well, in terms of the number of convictions for voter fraud that occurred in the 2019 general election, there were four convictions and two cautions in the whole of the United Kingdom. There is no evidential base for that particular move, and it can only leave you with the one question as to why it's actually being introduced, similar to measures that are also being introduced in parts of America that are being promoted there, and there is a very strong suggestion that this is more about voter suppression than it is about free and fair and open elections. As I say, I will be arguing the Welsh Government's case and putting the position of the Welsh Government in those discussions, and I will update this Chamber and I will update the Senedd in due course when we know more.

Minister, proving that we are who we say we are is not so unusual, whether it is our age to buy a drink or a firework from a shop, or proof to open a bank account, or a driver's licence to hire a car, it is part of modern life and something we are all used to. If it is good enough for those activities, then why not for something as important as voting? Minister, I know that those on the political left see this as an affront to our democracy, when in fact it is to preserve and protect the democratic process itself that photo identification is now being considered. If you are against the idea of voters proving who they are, what other steps do you think should be taken to ensure the robustness of our democratic process?

Thank you for the question. I think you actually put the question in exactly the wrong way, from reverse. The question is: if you want to impose restrictions and checks and balances of all sorts, and you could go much further, then you have to say, 'Well, there has got to be a reason to do it.' Yes, we all want to see a free, fair, open and robust electoral system. I believe we have a free, fair, open and robust electoral system. So, I can only then ask the question: if there is no evidential base to actually make a change that will make it more difficult for people to vote, that may place additional obstacles on people to vote, why is this being done?

And finally, question 8, Sioned Williams.