Item 6 on our agenda is a debate on a Member's legislative proposal: a Bill on a rights-based approach to services for older people. I call on Gareth Davies to move the motion.

Motion NDM7713 Gareth Davies

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Notes a proposal for a Bill that would embed a rights-based approach in the development, planning and delivery of public services that affect older people in Wales.

2. Notes that the purpose of this Bill would be to:

a) place a duty on Welsh Ministers to have due regard for the United Nations Principles for Older Persons when making decisions that may impact upon older people in Wales;

b) extend the due regard duty to local authorities, local health boards and other Welsh public authorities;

c) place a duty on Welsh Ministers to promote knowledge and understanding of the UN Principles for Older Persons amongst older people and Welsh public authorities;

d) place a requirement for Welsh Ministers to consult the Older People’s Commissioner, older people and other relevant stakeholders before making or revising the older people’s rights scheme; and

e) place a duty for Welsh Ministers to issue guidance to Welsh public authorities.

Motion moved.

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I'd also like to thank the Business Committee for giving me this fantastic opportunity to address the Senedd this afternoon and bring forward this proposal. It’s a great honour, as one of the Parliament’s newest Members, to be bringing forward the first proposal for legislation of the sixth Senedd. The fact that this proposal has had support from across the Chamber shows that all parties here care about the rights of older persons.

According to the Office for National Statistics' latest mid-year population estimates, Wales has the highest proportion of over-65s of any home nation. Over one in five of our population are past state retirement age, and the numbers of people over 65 outweigh the number of people under the age of 15, meaning that we're an ageing population. Over the next two decades, the number of people aged over 65 is set to grow by around 40 per cent. While our demographics are changing, our society is not adapting, meaning that the rights of older people are being eroded.

We have taken steps in Wales to protect the rights of children and young people—and rightly so. We have, thanks to this institution, embedded the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child into Welsh law, and have placed a duty on Welsh Ministers to have regard to the UNCRC in everything we do. I want to afford our older generation the same protections enjoyed by our children.

The proposal for legislation before you today will, if taken forward, ensure that public bodies providing services that affect older people have had due regard to these, the UN principles for older persons. This two-page document was adopted by the UN General Assembly nearly 30 years ago in 1991, and sets out 18 principles. These core principles are grouped together in five themes: independence, participation, care, self-fulfilment and dignity—things that most of us take for granted. But these things are not always afforded to our older generations, unfortunately, as has been highlighted during the past 15 months.

The coronavirus pandemic has hit over-65s harder than any other age group. Older people are more likely to die from the virus, more likely to suffer from loneliness and isolation as a result of lockdown measures, and more likely to suffer as a result of measures put in place to reduce the impact on our NHS. A recent survey undertaken by Age Cymru, Active Wales, Cymru Older People's Alliance, Pensioners Forum Wales, National Pensioners Convention Wales, Women Connect First, and the Welsh Senate of Older People discovered the true impact the pandemic has had on older people. Respondents told of how lockdown not only affected their mental health, but also their physical health as well. A staggering seven in 10 outlined a negative experience in accessing healthcare, with one in five having cancelled appointments. What really hit home, however, was the comment by one respondent. She said, 'I am concerned that when lockdown is over, we will struggle as service providers return to neglecting the needs of those of us who have always lived in lockdown, regardless of the pandemic.'

We cannot allow the needs of older people to be neglected any longer. My proposed legislation will ensure that the rights of older persons are respected and protected. I urge colleagues to support the motion before them this afternoon. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Thank you. Do remember that speakers have three minutes on this item and not five minutes.

Just to remind you, as this is the first time that a Member has brought a statement forward, that it's three minutes for speakers, not five minutes as in a normal debate. Janet Finch-Saunders.

First off, I would like to thank you, Gareth, for bringing this very important debate here to the Chamber. I think the points you very ably make about seeking this Bill to come forward—unless it's put into legislation, then things are going to be the very same. 

Older people's experiences during the pandemic have certainly strengthened the case for further protection of their rights in law. It's not the first time that we as Welsh Conservatives have asked for this legislation to come forward. All of us will have stories of constituents in our own constituencies who have needed rallying round, and, in some instances, have not had anyone to rally round. For example, in Aberconwy, the rotary club of the Conwy valley and Golygfa Gwydyr have been providing a foodbank service. Let's build on that momentum to help others by creating the due duty that our older people deserve. This would help stop serious errors that happen again and again, such as older and vulnerable people being pressured into signing 'do not attempt to resuscitate' CPR forms, the unjustifiable delay on care home testing, and gaps between care home visiting and guidance based against the reality on the ground.

Over 140,000 older people in Wales could be experiencing some form of abuse, and I'd like to thank the older people's commissioner, Heléna Herklots, for the work that she's doing on this very issue. It is clear from the recent report 'Support Services for Older People Experiencing Abuse in Wales' that more action is needed. Recommendations include the need for the Welsh Government to review relevant strategies and policies to ensure that they address the needs of our older people, and for policy makers, commissioners and service providers to consider how the needs of older people living in rural areas can be met.

We know that our community buses, and the lack of them, provide even more social isolation for our older people. We can help by creating the duty to have due regard to the UN principle that you mention that people should be able to live in environments that are safe. Imagine the difference it would make if Ministers, local authorities, health boards and other Welsh authorities had to have due regard to the need for older people to have access to adequate healthcare and housing. It would help drive action to address the worrying estimate that, by 2035, Wales is going to have a shortfall of 5,000 units of housing with care. We're going to have a lack of 7,000 nursing care beds and 15,000 units of housing for older people.

The duty could also help highlight the need for urgent action to address the devastating fact that 70 per cent of older people had a negative experience of accessing healthcare during lockdown. I have constituents coming in now daily where they just feel forgotten because of COVID; they're in desperate pain and agony, with a lack of treatment and a lack of GP access. We have to really strengthen those rights. So, Deputy Minister, I fully endorse and support the calls by my newly elected colleague Gareth Davies. And I thank you, Gareth, for bringing such an important issue to the floor of this Senedd so soon in your political career here. Thank you. Diolch.

Thank you to Gareth Davies, from the Vale of Clwyd, where I was born, for tabling this motion.

I wish to speak in support of the motion tabled. I'm the Plaid Cymru spokesperson on communities and older people, and as such, this proposed legislation is something I take a keen interest in. This motion is timely in light of a number of headlines we've seen in recent weeks. We've seen research that shows that older people are feeling increasingly cut off from society. This is, in part, due to old habits of relying on cash, and with a reluctance to adopt online banking, this adds to the feeling of being ignored, left out and left behind. It has also been said that loneliness is the new normal for many older people. We should not accept or tolerate this. This section of society may be among some of our most vulnerable and, for many of us, our most precious. 

We have also heard how scams have risen dramatically since the beginning of the pandemic. We know that older people are often the victims of this type of crime. It's also true that they are the most targeted. This is causing police forces to alter their recruitment policies, so that they have a constabulary more capable of investigating these crimes. Then, of course, there are the headlines that we saw at the start of the pandemic and, indeed, throughout the pandemic: the impact on care homes. The death rates in care homes were not acceptable, and lessons have to be learned. Those residents who were fortunate enough to avoid catching coronavirus were still impacted greatly by the removal of visitation rights from family and friends.

It is possible for social distancing to be maintained, even during a pandemic, to protect and prevent the virus from spreading. The blanket ban on visits under any circumstances, including socially distanced outdoor visits, meant well-being plummeting for many care home residents. Sending out a clear message that the rights of older people matter and are protected in law would be a powerful thing for this Senedd to do. This legislation will make it clear that we, in this Senedd, value our older people. Most importantly, it will tell our older people that we care. That's something worth supporting. Diolch yn fawr.  

I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Services, Julie Morgan.

Diolch. Thank you, Gareth, for bringing the first legislative proposal to this new Senedd.

The Welsh Government is committed to upholding and protecting the rights of all older people in Wales. I am clear that age does not diminish an individual's right to be treated with dignity and respect. The pandemic, as speakers here today have already referred to, has sharpened society's awareness of the importance of human rights, and several referrals have been made to some of the issues that have arisen during the pandemic.

I would just like to make a few points to clear up some of the statements that have been made. In terms of care home visiting, there has never been a blanket ban on care home visiting. It's always been possible for visitors to go into care homes in particular circumstances, but I accept the point that the Member is making: that, overall, it has been a very sad situation for people in care homes and their relatives. But, there has never been a blanket ban.

As I say, the pandemic has sharpened our awareness, but before the first outbreak of COVID-19, a programme of work was already under way to make rights real for older people. Older people's rights are already enshrined in the UK Human Rights Act 1998, and age is a protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010. Specifically in Wales, the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 requires local authorities to have due regard to the UN principles for older people, and gives older people a strong voice in the arrangements for any care that they may need.

As part of our activity to co-produce a strategy for an ageing society, a working group was convened to develop practice guidance, demonstrating how health and social care professionals can embed a rights-based approach. Membership of the group included older people, leading academics and representatives of the third sector and the older persons' commissioner. The guidance, which was published in December 2020, uses practical examples to illustrate how local authorities can have due regard to the UN principles for older persons, as required by the social services and well-being Act. It shows how simple changes to the way that we work can uphold an individual's human rights and can have a major impact on their well-being.

For many, this guidance will provide a reaffirmation that the approach they are taking is the right one. However, I want the guidance to inform all aspects of service design—commissioning, tendering, delivery and evaluation. I will continue to take advice from the ministerial advisory group on ageing on how we use these resources to best effect. The group also produced a version of this guidance for older people, and I hope that these two documents will be used together to guide conversations and inspire a common understanding of the transformative effect of a rights-based approach.

In January 2020, we also ran an older people's rights campaign, which was promoted via print, radio adverts and social media. We'll continue to identify options for promoting rights as we publish the strategy for an ageing society, which is due in September. We'll have a supporting delivery plan by the end of the year. A rights-based approach will be fundamental to the realisation of our 10 well-being objectives, as set out in our new programme for government. Two of the objectives are: to protect, rebuild and develop our services for vulnerable people; and to celebrate diversity and move to eliminate inequality in all of its forms.

The pandemic has highlighted other groups in society who also experience the corrosive impact of inequality and deserve to have their rights better protected. There have been calls to enact the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, and also to bring into Welsh law the UN convention on the rights of disabled people, and we support these calls. However, introducing separate pieces of legislation to address the needs of individual groups would result in a piecemeal approach. It may also make it more difficult to understand how people living with more than one protected characteristic experience inequality.

There is a strong argument for taking a more ambitious, holistic approach to legislating for human rights. To inform this approach, the Welsh Government has commissioned research to explore the options available to strengthen and advance equality and human rights in Wales. This research is considering the possible incorporation of the United Nations conventions into Welsh law and whether there may be need for new legislation, such as a human rights Bill for Wales or changes to existing legislation. The final draft report has been submitted to the Welsh Government, and we are now able to say that publication is anticipated by the end of the summer period. As part of this work, the research team met with the ministerial advisory forum on ageing, and numerous community equality organisations representing people with different protected characteristics. Evidence from marginalised minority groups with lived experience was also collected via focus groups, and it is intended that the Welsh Government will consult on any identified options or legislative models to emerge from this research.

To conclude, while I am committed to upholding and protecting the rights of all older people in Wales, and I accept many of the points made by the contributors to the debate today, I cannot support this proposal. When we do legislate, we should do that holistically for the whole of society and in a way that acknowledges the complexity of people's lives and experiences.

No Members have indicated that they wish to intervene, therefore I call on Gareth Davies to reply to the debate.

Thank you very much again, Deputy Presiding Officer. I want to thank everybody this afternoon for their fantastic contributions.

Janet Finch-Saunders talked about the legislation that has been a priority of the Welsh Conservatives for some time now, further protection of rights, elderly people being in isolation, and the great community support from Llandudno rotary club, and others in the local community, who are there to help our elderly people in a particularly difficult time during the pandemic over the last 15 months, and that holistic approach that comes as a result of that. Because, essentially, it's a non-exhaustive list of needs, sometimes, with some individuals, and that's really important to highlight.

Thanks very much as well to Peredur, who takes a great interest in this subject. It's good to see you being Plaid's spokesman on this, on a subject that you feel really passionate about. You highlighted the lack of online banking facilities or the lack of knowledge from—or perhaps a lack of knowledge from—elderly people of how to use that, and they felt isolated as a result, and scams and death rates in care homes increasing.

And thank you as well to Julie Morgan for rightly covering human rights and some of the UK legislation that's already in place. But, I think, in terms of not being able to support this this afternoon is quite disappointing. We have a chance here where we have the devolved powers to enact these things, and the Welsh Government have a good opportunity to stand up for the population that makes up a fifth of this country, and it's a fantastic opportunity to do that this afternoon. I just want to come back and say this isn't political, it's got cross-party support. I've had some supportive messages from even some Labour MSs this afternoon. So, you know, it goes to show that this is a consensus, and it's all nice when we agree on things. So, I'm quite disappointed that the Welsh Government can't support this this afternoon.

I'll just close by urging colleagues to support this motion in front of you this afternoon. Thank you very much.

The proposal is to note the motion. Does any Member object? [Objection.] Yes. I will therefore defer voting under this item until voting time.

Voting deferred until voting time.

We will now suspend proceedings to allow changeovers in the Chamber. If you're leaving the Chamber, please do so promptly. The bell will be rung two minutes before proceedings restart. Any Members who are arriving after a changeover should wait until then before entering the Chamber. 

Plenary was suspended at 16:32.

The Senedd reconvened at 16:43, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.