1. Will the Minister make a statement in response to calls from the leaders of Wales's 22 local authorities for the Welsh Government to review the powers and remit of Natural Resources Wales? TQ562

I welcome feedback from the Welsh Local Government Association. We certainly need to ensure our bodies, including NRW, are best placed to achieve our significant environmental ambitions. We're starting with the review of the delivery of flood risk management functions, to which the Welsh Government committed in the national flood strategy.

Thank you. I wouldn't have exactly called it 'welcome feedback'. I was shocked, and I'm sure those employees on the front line were shocked also, working for NRW, that all of Wales's 22 local authorities have now called for a review. The letter sent by the leader of the WLGA had scathing comments on it, Minister, such as,

'when dealing with events at a local level there can still be tensions over decisions and choices'.

And a number of leaders suggested that not all is well. Local authorities are calling for you to question how well the functions undertaken by NRW are being performed, and if there might be an alternative, more effective model of working. We believe there most certainly is. As we said in 2018, the quango should be split up. It has simply gone from crisis to crisis.

The timber deal scandal lost the Welsh taxpayer at least £1 million. Despite compiling an evidence-based report at a cost of £45,000 to the taxpayer, NRW ignored the advice and banned game shooting on public land. The Climate Change, Environment and Rural Affairs Committee, at their inquiry into the February flooding, found that NRW's role and services were stretched beyond capacity, and only around half the 70 additional staff needed—and that was according to the chief executive and the 'February 2020 Floods in Wales: Flood Incident Management Review'—only 30 had been appointed.

The recent section 19 report by Rhondda Cynon Taf County Borough Council found that flooding at Pentre was caused by wooded debris washing off the mountainside and blocking a local culvert. They very robustly pointed the finger at NRW. Another failing. In Aberconwy, local landowners were forced to carry out works to the Tan Lan embankment, after NRW would not pay. They were quoting £150,000 for this work to be done, and my constituents have managed to have the work done for £15,000. And our community request for dredging of the afon Conwy, protection of Gwydir Castle, and removal of the large build-up of shale around Llanrwst bridge, remain unaddressed.

I am not alone in having no confidence whatsoever in NRW's ability to respond effectively to flood events, and, as such, have made clear that we should have a national flood agency for Wales, 100 per cent focused on flooding. Do you agree on that?

NRW and Welsh Government should pay compensation to the residents affected in Rhondda. Are you looking into the possibility of doing so? And, do you agree with me that you should respond to Councillor Andrew Morgan's letter by committing to review how NRW might be better modelled going forward?

The number of complaints coming into my mailbag now about NRW, and the lack of trust that the public have in this organisation now, is becoming quite concerning. Will you please listen to the words of those 22 local authority leaders, who have their own local intelligence and know what works for them and what doesn't? And will you look, please, Minister, once and for all, at restructuring NRW? Thank you. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Thank you for that, Janet Finch-Saunders. I'm not sure which of your very many questions you wanted me to focus on, so I will just focus on the ones that I think are the most important. First of all, I've already had a meeting with NRW's leadership team, in which I've been extremely clear about my expectations for their future resource management, management in general, and their relationships with public authorities across Wales in a team Wales approach.

We're already conducting a review of the flood management arrangements, as I have said. We have a large number of regulatory arrangements coming back from Europe, and I've already asked for a review of the structure and delivery of those new regulatory powers to be arranged. We also need to be mindful of NRW's capacity to look at all of these reviews at the same time as delivering their vital services on the ground.

I've asked all flood management authorities to review their processes as we approach the next winter. We've already conducted two emergency exercises to ensure that everybody knows who should be doing what in the event of extreme flooding or other weather events during the next winter. And I am, of course, in close liaison with the local government association, with whom I have an excellent relationship, via my good friend and colleague Rebecca Evans's good offices as local government Minister, to continue a robust discussion with them and with NRW.

I need to declare an interest in this issue, as I live in the community of Pentre, and was personally affected by the 2020 floods.

Minister, as you're aware, I have my own anxieties and frustrations with NRW. Over 200 properties and businesses flooded in the Rhondda last year. Immediate action was taken by Welsh Government, Welsh Water and RCT council to put right the culvert and drainage systems. Clear dialogue has been provided to residents throughout. Sadly, this can't be said of NRW. Flood-affected residents frankly feel ignored by NRW and feel that the public body lacks accountability. I share these views.

The behaviour of NRW following the release of RCT council's section 19 report into the Pentre floods was appalling. Refusing to take any responsibility for the dreadful events of last year is insulting, given the fact there's clear photo and video evidence of wooded debris from NRW land blocking the culvert above Pentre. Public bodies should willingly co-operate with other public bodies for the benefit of residents. We've seen anything but from NRW in the Rhondda. It's for these reasons that I believe NRW needs an urgent review, and I'd appreciate a meeting with the Minister to further discuss this for the benefit of the flood-affected residents and businesses.

Thank you, Buffy, for those comments and remarks. I've certainly already welcomed Rhondda Cynon Taf's section 19 report in relation to the 2020 flooding in Pentre, and my sympathies go to all of the residents, including yourself, who suffered from the flooding in that extreme weather event last year.

There are clearly some very concerning findings, and lessons clearly need to be learned following those devastating floods. Both NRW and RCT have acknowledged this in their respective reports, and I know they are working together to address recommendations to improve the level of flood protection provided to the community. I can't comment on the individual issues around compensation and so on for obvious reasons. I am more than happy to meet with you and the local authority leaders, and, in fact, I believe we have such a meeting immediately following this topical question. So, I'll be very delighted to take part in that meeting and consider further what we can do.

I am very keen to consider the feedback from local authority leaders, other delivery partners, and the public in the context of the lessons we need to learn. We also need to make absolutely certain that all flood risk management authorities work together to develop a plan of action for the Pentre community and for the other communities across Wales, to provide clarity on the action they have taken since the floods in 2020 and to provide reassurance that we will not see recurrences of that in the forthcoming winter.

However, as you know, we have declared a climate and nature emergency in the Senedd because of our changing climate and the necessary need to protect against extreme weather events becoming much more common. So, I understand and accept the urgency of the remarks that you've made and we certainly will be working with NRW and all of the relevant flood risk management authorities to ensure that we have those robust emergency plans in place, and that we've taken all the necessary steps to do everything we can do to be as ready as possible for the forthcoming winter.

It is right that questions are asked of NRW and I raised this very issue yesterday in the Senedd, but I am concerned by the tone of the comments made today. At the end of the day, I think we need to remember that Natural Resources Wales are a Welsh Government sponsored body. In their own review and report into the floods, they stated that they have been underfunded and this has been on record for a number of years, and, as Janet Finch-Saunders referenced, they need an additional 60 to 70 members of staff, which they still don't have.

So, therefore, can I ask that we don't make a scapegoat of Natural Resources Wales solely on this, but that it is time now that we have that full independent inquiry into the floods? Because as the rest of the section 19 report will be published, the fault won't just lie with Natural Resources Wales—questions will be asked of Welsh Government; questions will be asked of local authorities; questions will be asked of Dŵr Cymru Welsh Water. There are a number of organisations with responsibility for flooding and it's a very complex picture, and there are different reasons. Even in the section 19 report, there is some fault directed towards RCT council in terms of the drains in Pentre as well, so not solely focused on NRW.

Can we please, given this public fallout and given all of these concerns raised, have that independent inquiry into the floods, so that people get justice and the answers they deserve, and we tackle flooding for the future once and for all, rather than commissioning review after review and rather than tackling the root cause and getting to grips with this issue as a matter of urgency?

Well, thank you very much, Heledd, for those remarks. I certainly agree with the remarks in which you praised the action of the many staff in NRW who worked above and beyond the call of duty during the flooding. And I want to add my thanks to those staff, including the staff who work specifically on these particular issues. There were staff from across the public sector working very hard both in the run-up to the flood events and indeed in the crisis afterwards—well above and beyond the call of duty, and I certainly add my thanks to them for doing so.

As I said, we are already in the process of reviewing the flood management arrangements. We've already reviewed that with a number of public bodies and I have already met with the NRW leadership team in order to discuss my requirements going forward for their liaison as part of our team Wales approach, exactly as you outlined.

As I've already explained several times in the Senedd to you, I don't agree with your call for an independent inquiry. I think that just diverts resources away from the issue at hand. I appreciate that you don't agree with that, but I'm afraid I don't agree with you on that point. We will be working very hard with NRW and all other partners across Wales to ensure that we have all the lessons learned in place and that we have the right resources available in the right place for the forthcoming winter.

Just to remind everyone that NRW is a great deal more than just a flood defences authority. They employ 1,900 staff and have a budget of £180 million. This is not a small, under-resourced organisation and I do think the public of Wales need to understand that in the light of the comments being made today.

Thank you, Minister.