3. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Convention on our Constitutional Future

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:16 pm on 13 July 2021.

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Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 3:16, 13 July 2021

Can I say that I welcome the fact that you've made this statement to the Chamber today rather than to the media first? I think that some of your colleagues have a lot to learn from you, Minister.

As we've said in the past, we don't believe that there's a public appetite for this to be a priority at the moment, but we accept that the Welsh Government has different views, and that's why you've brought this particular statement forward. We do think that all of the energy of the Welsh Government should be focused on other priorities, such as getting to grips with the economic recovery, making sure that our NHS is able to cope with the backlog that it now has as a result of the pandemic, and, indeed, helping our schools and education system to recover from COVID as well. But, given that you've made this statement, I would just ask a number of questions today about it. First of all, you've said that

'from the outset: reform is needed to enable us to deliver our commitments to support our public services, develop a prosperous economy, and tackle poverty and inequality',  yet the reality is that the reason that we haven't tackled poverty, the reason that our economy isn't more prosperous, the reason that our public services aren't as good as they ought to be, is nothing to do with this Senedd not having the powers that it needs; it's because we have a failing Welsh Labour Government that's failed to address these particular issues over the decades.

Now, you've talked about the importance of this commission going forward. Can you give us a timetable by which you expect its work to be completed? You made a long list of individual organisations and other stakeholders that you want to participate in the commission. How big is this thing going to be? How much is it going to cost? Are these positions going to be paid positions? You know, how long is a piece of string? I do think that if you have a significant size to the commission, then it is going to potentially be far too large, far too unwieldy to be able to deliver any reasonable outcomes.

You've mentioned having a chair or possibly co-chairs. I don't know what the arrangements are that you might envisage co-chairs being able to look at the work and co-ordinate the work of this particular commission, but is that a chair and co-chair for both the expert panel and the commission? You've said you want a commission that has expertise, and yet you're setting up an expert panel alongside it. Will that be competing with it in terms of the expertise that you expect this commission to have? What do you think the output of this commission is going to be? I'm assuming you're looking for a list of recommendations for the Government to consider, or is that for this Senedd to consider as a whole?

Will this commission, importantly, not just look at the constitutional arrangements across the whole of the UK, but will it look at the devolution and constitutional arrangements in Wales? Will it look at the clamour in our local authorities and our regions of Wales for more responsibilities to be devolved to them—to north Wales, to west Wales, to Swansea and the Swansea city area, as Mike Hedges reminds us on a regular basis? I do think that these are things that the commission should not be fettered looking at, and I do think that there is an appetite for those things to be considered, and, indeed, if they are, I think that would be a very useful conversation for us to be having.

What sort of questions are you asking the commission to consider? You must have an idea of these already. You've obviously already set out the Welsh Government's stall in your 'Reforming our Union' paper. Is this commission simply going to look at your paper and determine whether those things are sensible or not, or will it really have the free range that I believe any commission needs to be able to have if it's going to be able to do something useful that cannot be done in other ways?

I'll stop there because I've asked many, many questions, Llywydd. But I do welcome the fact that you've made a commitment also to engaging with all political parties on this, and we look forward to being able to contribute in a meaningful way to the development of the commission and the important work that you want it to do going forward.