3. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Convention on our Constitutional Future

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:46 pm on 13 July 2021.

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Photo of Mick Antoniw Mick Antoniw Labour 3:46, 13 July 2021

Well, thank you for those comments. And, of course, it's not through my work, it's going to be through our and many other people's work that success will be achieved. Just commenting on Elystan Morgan, I had the great honour of actually working with Elystan Morgan for quite a number of months during the build-up to the 1979 devolution referendum, along with others. And he was one of a great generation of Welsh politicians: Cledwyn Hughes, Jim Griffiths, John Morris—Elystan Morgan is within that grouping, and there are many others as well. But Elystan, certainly during that campaign, showed not only his incredible oratorical skills, but his ability to win people's hearts and minds to an idea. Unfortunately, as we know, with the referendum, the 1979 referendum was not really about devolution for Wales, it was really about the tail-end of the Labour Government at that particular moment in time. It was probably the worst time to ever have a referendum. But I think it's important that we recognise and remember that legacy. And I had the opportunity to talk with him when he came to the Labour Party conference a few years back, and his mind was still as acute and sharp and as focused on these issues and about the future of Wales. He was certainly a great Welsh patriot, certainly a very committed socialist, and just a wonderful person in whose company you could actually be. So, rest in peace, Elystan. 

In terms of the other comments you made, a Wales for everyone, that is really what this is ultimately about. It's a Wales for everyone, but it's one where we build the consensus for everyone. And I say 'consensus' because, when we take certain terminology out of our conversations, we actually have such an enormous area of common agreement, and it's turning that common agreement into a process of change. And that is going to be part of the real challenge of what this task is about. I don't underestimate the difficulties and the pitfalls that exist, because I think we are doing something that is radically very different, and of course the challenges are there. There is no guide book to how you do this sort of engagement process. We look to other countries, other examples, but at the end of the day, it's in our hands to make it work.

You made—. The final point, really, where you said devolution is dead, I think what has happened is that devolution originally was a process of decentralisation of administered powers and responsibilities from Westminster. The moment Scotland and Wales became legislatures and the moment this place became a legislative parliament, sovereignty shifted to the people. Unfortunately, the problem at the moment is our constitution as it exists in practice has not yet caught up with the reality of what sovereignty is really about, and that is the power of people being exercised through their elected representatives.