Well, Llywydd, I start always from a position of scepticism about any measures that place additional barriers in the path of people going about their everyday lives. It should always be a proper discussion, and you need to be persuaded to do something, rather than starting from a position of being in favour of them. There are real ethical issues to be considered in relation to vaccine certification, there are practical issues, there are legal issues, and I think it's right that our starting point in Wales should have been that we would need to be persuaded that there was a public health benefit from vaccine certification. That debate does indeed go on this week in the Cabinet. We've met twice on the issue already. We will meet again on it this week, making sure that we have the best possible information about the public health benefits that vaccine certification might produce, against the disbenefits that come from it.

We've not been helped, Llywydd, I have to say, by the position of the UK Government on this. I have lost count, Llywydd, of the number of meetings that I have sat through with UK Ministers, in which they have lectured me about the necessity of vaccine certification. And when I have raised with them the ethical, the legal, and the practical issues that need to be resolved, I've generally been treated as though these were details that ought not to get in the way of this necessary course of action. As late as the end of last week, we were being told by UK Ministers that they would be going ahead with vaccine certification in England. If I was in the leader of the opposition's position, I would probably wait to hear what they actually say on that matter today, in case there is yet another change in their position since the weekend.

Here in Wales, we will not make a decision on the basis of what is convenient for the Conservative Party and the various factions that exist within it. We will continue to weigh up the public health benefits against the very real concerns that there are with vaccine certification. Then we will come to the best decision that we are able to make.