Item 5, a statement by the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership: an update on the social partnership and public procurement (Wales) Bill. And I call on the Deputy Minister, Hannah Blythyn. 

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The Welsh Government is committed to using every lever available to us to improve working lives and workplaces across the country. We are resolute in our ambition to become a nation of fair work, working together to ensure decent and dignified work that brings broader benefits for our communities, our economy and our environment. The social partnership and public procurement (Wales) Bill is an important part of this. 

Consultation on our draft Bill closed shortly before the Senedd elections in May. The response was very positive, with 85 responses broadly endorsing our proposals and a summary analysis of responses was published on 13 July. The draft Bill included provisions to strengthen and promote consistency in social partnership in Wales. It will put social partnership on a more formal footing by creating a statutory social partnership council and place a new duty on specified public bodies in Wales to involve the recognised trade unions when carrying out certain functions.

The draft Bill included measures to allow us to achieve socially responsible public procurement. As my colleague the Minister for Finance and Local Government confirmed, we are working closely with the UK Government on public procurement reform and will use their legislation for the basic processes that underpin procurement. But we believe that decisions on the policy outcomes from procurement should be made in Wales. We will establish a statutory framework that will place our priorities of fair work, decarbonisation and well-being at the heart of our procurement. The legislation will improve the link between procurement processes and the delivery of better outcomes through stronger contract management provisions to improve transparency. This will highlight areas for improvement and allow the sharing of good practice. Our aim is to establish a system in which organisations can be held to account for ensuring that contract conditions support socially responsible practices throughout supply chains, particularly in large construction contracts and outsourcing services contracts.

Finally, the Bill will introduce a specific duty on Welsh Ministers to take action to promote and encourage fair work when we are undertaking activity to improve the delivery of public services or the economic, social, environmental or cultural well-being of Wales. In practical terms, the Bill's fair work duty will mean that Welsh Ministers will be under a legal obligation to take action that promotes and encourages fair work as defined by the Fair Work Commission's report. The Bill will strengthen how we approach fair work across Government, providing us with a common approach underpinned by legislation. Promoting and encouraging fair work will no longer be a policy choice, where 'do nothing' is a potential option for Ministers and officials, because we will be under a duty to take action.

The Bill will also introduce a duty on Welsh Ministers to report annually on the activities we have taken to promote and encourage fair work. These specific fair work provisions, alongside the social partnership and sustainable procurement duties in the Bill, will provide added impetus, certainty and clarity to the actions we take to advance fair work.

The social partnership and public procurement Bill will therefore make good on a central recommendation of the Fair Work Commission by providing a framework to use all of our influence and policy levers to advance fair work. However, it's not just about legislation alone. We are already demonstrating how we will interpret the fair work duty and put our commitment to fair work into practice to ensure a better deal for workers, something which we are committed to building on.

The social care forum is at the forefront of informing our approach to delivering our programme for government commitment to pay social care workers the real living wage. The coronavirus pandemic has shone a spotlight on those workers whom we depend on for so much, from caring for our nearest and dearest to going about our daily lives. In response to this, we are exploring how a social partnership approach in other sectors can help respond to challenges not solely in terms of pay and conditions but also the sustainability of those sectors as a whole, such as hospitality and retail. And we are continuing to work with others to safeguard against a regression on workers' rights. We're working with social partners and a range of stakeholders to raise knowledge and awareness of workers' rights and where to access support and advice. We're also working to build and communicate the business benefits of fair work, including promoting real living wage adoption and accreditation. The ongoing refresh and strengthening of the economic contract and the fair work pillar within it will be an essential tool in our ongoing conversations and engagement with business.

In all of this, we are seeking to promote that, by working together, both employers and workers have a collective interest in the shared benefits of fair work. Trade unions should be front and centre of this work; they are the best route for collective representation in the workplace and have a central part to play not simply in driving up terms and conditions but more broadly in unlocking our economy as whole. With this in mind, alongside the Bill, we are committed to continuing to make the social and economic case for trade union membership and trade unions within workplaces in Wales.

Over the course of devolution, social partnership has very much come to be seen as a Welsh way of working. The past 18 months have demonstrated beyond any doubt the value of working in social partnership to tackle the big issues facing Wales. The social partnership and public procurement (Wales) Bill is an ambitious and progressive piece of legislation that places these values at the heart of decision making in Government, in Welsh public services and in taking forward our commitment to a more equal Wales. Throughout the summer, we have worked with social partners and key stakeholders to refine the provisions and we remain on track to introduce the legislation in the first year of this Senedd term.

I look forward to bringing the social partnership and public procurement (Wales) Bill before the Senedd and working together to deliver these benefits for workers in Wales and for the delivery of public services. But this is an important agenda that cannot wait, and we will continue to use non-legislative opportunities to progress fair work in the meantime.

Conservative spokesman, Joel James.

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. The first Bill this Welsh Government has chosen to put forward to the sixth Senedd is not one that deals with the ambulance response crisis or the thousands of people waiting more than two years for an operation, nor does it even deal with the current COVID pandemic. [Interruption.] Instead, this Government is chiefly concerned with looking after their trade union paymasters. [Interruption.] The major issue with this Bill is that it demands a public body to consult with trade unions and requires a sign-off from them in order for procurement contracts to proceed.

In itself, consulting with an outside body to ensure full impartiality and to make sure that fair processes are enforced is not a new development. However, surely the Deputy Minister can see that there is a clear issue in how trade unions will now have undue influence over public procurement and how trade unions will now effectively police the public procurement system in Wales. Under this proposed legislation, any social partnership report must be agreed with the public body's recognised trade unions or the public body will have to answer to the Welsh Government, writing a full report explaining why they have failed to meet the trade union demands. [Interruption.] This Welsh Government, using this Bill, will effectively be setting themselves up to act as Tartarus, punishing those who stand up to their trade union gods.

In your own consultation, several local authority employers felt the benefits of fair work are already recognised, and they could not see what benefits this legislation would bring. Therefore, can the Deputy Minister explain what, if any, are the benefits of this legislation—[Interruption.]—that cannot already be achieved under current legislation? Can the Deputy Minister also clarify if trade unions will receive remuneration for their involvement with meeting the requirements of the Bill and who will ultimately fund this? [Interruption.] I presume that the trade unions will seek remuneration for their endeavours, and so what this Bill is creating is a Government-backed income stream for the trade unions, because no doubt they will be tasked with employing and I also presume training the necessary people to scrutinise public contracts. I suspect that many trade unions are therefore not staffed to meet the requirements of this Bill. This Government will be funnelling public money to increase the working capacity of these trade unions who will then be directly funding, through their subscriptions and donations, the Welsh Labour Party. The Deputy Minister must clearly see how this is not only unethical behaviour, but a tremendous slap in the face of hospitals, charities, schools and councils who are crying out for extra funding to deliver basic services. The Deputy Minister should no doubt be able to see another glaring problem in that the whole system, by its very nature, can be subjected to accusations of corruption, whereby trade unions could be seen to favour one employer or contract over another. This is seeding the bed of corruption and is something that I am—and, I'm sure, many other Members here—exceptionally concerned about.

The view that trade unions will now have undue influence over public contracts can also be clearly seen in the fact that the social partnership council for Wales will have a third of its membership made up of them, while you propose only three representatives from the whole of the private sector, on whom this Bill will have a direct influence. Unquestionably, the Deputy Minister would have already recognised this, so therefore I can only assume it has been done with deliberate intention, and highlights once again that the Welsh Government is primarily concerned with increasing the power of the trade unions in this nation. The Minister must surely agree with me that the private sector is massively under-represented, and I would ask them if they can explain why so few private sector representatives are on the social partnership council.

Furthermore, because the Bill will rely so heavily on trade union involvement, there is a risk that workers within sectors where unionisation rates are low or non-existent would be excluded from the social partnership arrangements and their associated benefits. Knowing this, can the Deputy Minister explain why this Bill relies so heavily on trade unions and asks them to scrutinise and sign off public procurement and construction contracts? Why couldn't an independent body be given the same powers of review? Existing arrangements with trade unions would still be in place, and therefore, in my mind, there is no good reason to task trade unions with signing off social partnership contracts.

Finally, I would like to say that I agree with, and my party supports, the benefits that fair work and fair pay—

Can the Member ask the final question now? You're over time.

—can bring to companies in construction in Wales.

Surely, Deputy Minister, given what has been said, you recognise that there are higher priorities for the people of Wales that need far more urgent attention than this social partnership and procurement Bill. Thank you.

Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I'm not quite sure where to start with that—it's straight out of the Conservative caricature playbook in reverting back to the 1970s narrative when it comes to trade unions and working people. It's disappointing, but sadly unsurprising. The Member seems to either completely misunderstand the purposes of the Bill—and I'm more than happy to offer a technical briefing at a later stage to enlighten him around that—but also seeks to deliberately misinterpret the purpose of the Bill and the role of trade unions within working within this country. The social partnership council gives an equal footing and equal say around the table to trade unions, to employers from the private, public and voluntary sectors and to Welsh Government. It's about working together to make a difference. You said you support fair work. This is using the levers that we have at our disposal to make a difference, and we've seen during the pandemic just how important that is as we build back not just better, but fairer, and achieve a Wales of fair work.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Peredur Owen Griffiths.

Thank you very much, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you very much for that update from the Minister today. I very much welcome the recognition that there has been work over the summer with key partners to refine the proposals within the early draft of the Bill. There is a great deal within the draft that we welcome in general, and Plaid Cymru has promoted local procurement for several years as a way of supporting local businesses and encouraging economic growth.

Since 2012, Plaid Cymru has continually called for increased public procurement, a policy we featured once again in our most recent manifesto. We want to increase Welsh firms' share of contracts from 52 per cent to 75 per cent of the public procurement budget. It is estimated that this would create 46,000 additional jobs and safeguard many existing jobs in the Welsh economy. That is a potential benefit that would be transformational for our local economy, our local businesses and our local communities. This Government should finally grasp the opportunity that public procurement presents, and I hope this Bill, when finalised, will do just that.

I note from the consultation responses released earlier this year that several issues of concern were raised by key partners. The Bevan Foundation raised a number of important points during their consultation response, including the need to address the wider labour market context in which the social partnership Bill will operate. This context includes the nature and supply of other jobs in the labour market, the skills and qualifications of the workforce, the UK regulatory context, and the ownership and business models of employers. Without addressing these matters, the Bevan Foundation say that the Bill will not reach its full potential.

The Bevan Foundation also call for the conditions of the social partnership to be attached to all those employers in receipt of public funds, rather than just public bodies only. They also expressed disappointment that the paper does not go into supply chains with Welsh suppliers, something that is essential if this Bill is to have the kind of transformational impact on our economy, as I mentioned earlier. The Trades Union Congress also proffered a new definition of social responsible public procurement to ensure that no workers are exploited through public funds, something this Bill should be very careful to guard against.

These are just some of the points highlighted during the consultation, so I would like to know now how much has been, to quote your statement, refined over the summer to make this legislation the strongest, the fairest and the most effective it can possibly be. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you for your questions.

I'll try my best to address some of the key points there. You touched on, at the outset of your contribution, the potential, the power and the leverage that's there with procurement within Wales. As I said in the statement, we think the policy direction of procurement should be set here in Wales, but we're working closely across Government with my colleague the Minister for Finance and Local Government on how we can take the opportunity of procurement reform to take that policy direction to look at actually how we can maximise its potential, its outputs and the opportunities there, but also, actually, to support the procurement profession and the sector as well. One of the things we said in this Bill was to try to simplify things rather than create extra layers, and actually how we can support the profession to maximise, to grow and to develop as part of that. So, I'm sure as we move down the course of this Bill and wider procurement reform, there will be further updates and opportunities for Members to influence and shape that direction as well.

I'm familiar with the Bevan Foundation's response and a number of other consultation responses. I think I spent a half-term recess trying to read myself through all the consultation responses, as I find it really helpful to personally get to grips with the points that people are raising. And I think there were a number of things there, too. I said within the statement that legislation alone isn't going to address all these things, so there will probably be policy that can sit around the legislation too, to address some of those challenges and issues as well. For example, looking at those sectors that we know are facing particular challenges and, really, there's a business case for the businesses to get around the table too, to talk about actually how we can perhaps upskill and support workers, and that will provide them with more stable and decent employment, but will also provide stability for the sectors as well. So, within the points that the Bevan Foundation made around the wider labour market and upskilling, the fair work duty around the things that we can do within our devolved responsibilities around supporting skills and training, I think that will bring opportunities and, like you said, place that duty on Welsh Ministers to have to consider that and have to do something about it, and be a cross-Government priority as well.

You mentioned the social partnership duty and the calls for that to cover other bodies and other organisations. As is set out in the draft Bill, it was in line with the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015 and the public bodies over there and, of course, people have pointed out that since that Bill was enacted, other public bodies have come into force. So, as part of this process of working with stakeholders over the summer, and other partners, to refine the Bill and to move things forward to be in a position to actually introduce it in this place, there was actually, alongside this, going to be a review of the bodies as recommended by the committee report, to review those bodies that are covered by the well-being of future generations Act. That work will go alongside us progressing the Bill and will then help to shape how we can better align that and look if the right bodies are covered by this Act.

So, there's been a lot of work going on over the summer, predominantly around the fair work duty, of course, and also around actually how the procurement will work in practice. That has been done in partnership with stakeholders and social partners, and that is something that we'll continue as we look more now to bring the Bill forward, but also, actually, look at the operational nature of the legislation as well.

I think, for the record, I'll state that I'm a proud trade union member, and I would consider people in this Chamber, Members in this Chamber, reflecting on some of the comments made during today's contributions, because in fact it was trade unions like Unite Wales in my constituency who supported Airbus and saved hundreds of jobs at Airbus throughout the pandemic, whilst the UK Conservative Government continued to let them down and failed the workforce yet again.

So, I thank the Minister for today's statement. These are great proposals and a great opportunity to make workplaces throughout the length and breadth of Wales fairer and more collaborative places. What is crucial to me, Minister, is that this Act does have teeth to make a real difference to the workforce, whether it's trade union members or individual workers who seek a voice for better terms and conditions and even proper recognition. Now, one of the steps, Minister, to achieving this, is a robust definition of fair work, so perhaps, Minister, you could update the Chamber on what that is and how confident you are that that will work for workers.

I thank the Member, Jack Sargeant, for his contribution, and for actually using the opportunity to highlight the positive case for trade unions and actually to disabuse the reality from the rhetoric and the myths around it. We saw in north-east Wales thousands of well-paid jobs saved because, in social partnership, the trade unions worked with the employer to actually come up with a solution to safeguard those jobs for the future as well.

The Member is absolutely right to make sure we've got a piece of legislation that can make the difference we want it to make. So, as you'll be familiar with, in the draft Bill we left the definition around the fair work duty open, and from the conversations we have had with partners and stakeholders, the definition that will be on the Bill will be the definition as recommended by the Fair Work Commission, which we're already signed up to. Then, of course, around that, we will have to explore what the levers are that we have that we are responsible for, where we can make those practical differences, whether that be through things that we said before like skills, training or other opportunities as well.

Deputy Minister, this Bill, I think, does also present opportunities for Wales, I think especially around public procurement. As a previous local government cabinet member for economy, one of the things that I used to have all the time from businesses across Powys was, 'How can we get into public procurement? How can we help develop the local economy?' And I do think we need to be bold here and actually try and be world leading in public procurement. Public procurement can add massive benefits to the local economy in terms of jobs and opportunities; also in our schools, providing locally sourced meals, educating young people on where their food actually comes from, and chapter 7 of the Bill, I think, is very, very important to do that in the wider education of our children. I'd just like to know what conversations you've had with local government colleagues to prepare them for if this Bill is passed here and also with the Ministry of Defence, who do have a big presence in Wales and are a big part of public procurement within the country. I think it's very, very important that we get them on board early to make sure that they can procure locally sourced products that actually benefit jobs and the livelihoods of people in Wales. So, I'd like to see some commitments from yourself that we will be making sure, with the powers we have here, that local businesses can access and bid for public procurement, because I think that is the way we can protect jobs and livelihoods as we come out of this pandemic. Diolch, Deputy Llywydd.

Thanks, Deputy Llywydd, and the Member makes some really constructive points around, like you said before, the potential that procurement gives us here in Wales to really make a difference, to actually support work, but by default to actually support the local economy, because if people are in decent employment they're more likely to spend in the local economy as well, so there's that connection there. Very much, like I said before, this Bill is one aspect of that but amongst wider procurement reform. And one thing I would suggest is that when you were growing up you would never have said, 'Procurement offers a very exciting opportunity,' but it absolutely does, and it's one of those key levers that we have at our disposal in Wales and it's absolutely one, I know, not just within this Bill and from a social partnership, public procurement perspective in this Bill itself, but right across Government, and it's working on how we can maximise those opportunities. I'd be more than happy to keep the Member updated, and also if you've got any suggestions you want to feed into that process I would welcome them as well.

Just to touch on the point you made with—. Absolutely, we can talk about partnership, and this Bill has been developed by having those conversations with the people and the organisations that it will impact. So, we have worked with local government through the local government association, but clearly more in-depth conversations and guidance and support are going to be needed as we work up the detail and the operational impact of the new legislation as well.

And finally, Sarah Murphy.

Diolch. Thank you, Minister. As another proud trade unionist, I very much welcome your statement and that Welsh Government is prioritising a Bill with fair work at its heart, and a commitment to promoting trade unions and collective bargaining, so that industry development and growth can benefit employers and employees.

However, alarmingly, when myself and Professor Lina Dencik of the Data Justice Lab at Cardiff University interviewed trade union members last year, they described an array of new data, driven monitoring and surveillance practices that can hinder worker autonomy and collective bargaining. For example, facial recognition technology can be used to scan work spaces and identify when union reps are talking with workers. And we know from publicly available reports that multinational conglomerate Amazon has its analysts closely monitor the labour and union organising activity of their workers throughout Europe, and has allegedly been caught smearing employees who attempted to organise their colleagues. So, Minister, what consideration has been given to how new technologies and workplace surveillance could impact collective bargaining and trade unions' ability to organise, to ensure that this Bill is fit for the world of work now and achieves that level playing field for all to thrive?

Can I thank the Member for her question? And I note that the Member has done a lot of work around the challenges of what digital means for the world of work, the future of work and the pitfalls that that could actually bring as well as potential. We know that, when deployed responsibly, technology can be a force for good; it provides support and flexibility, as we've seen in many cases in the past 18 months during the pandemic, when many of us have had to work differently. Some organisations that have perhaps resisted that change in the past have seen that, actually, people can be as productive when they're working in a different setting. But, like you say, there is the flipside of it when it can be used for different motives.

There are challenges for us, aren't there, because employment law and industrial relations aren't devolved. I think, around what does the future of work mean, what levers do we have and how we can influence, it's the sort of thing that you would probably—. It's not for me to determine what the social partnership council, when hopefully it comes into being, should work on. But future work and the impact of things like digital changes in work patterns and what that work looks like in the future and how it works for workplaces, for workers and for the country as a whole is definitely something that should be on their agenda. And I think, in the meantime, I'd be very happy to perhaps meet with you to learn more about that work and perhaps to start to look at actually what we can be doing now.

I have received a request to ask one further question from a Member and it was within the time and we have sufficient time, so I'm allowing it, but please remember that it's a question on a statement and not a speech. So, Mark Isherwood.

Thank you. In your statement, you say you will place fair work, decarbonisation and well-being at the heart of procurement, but don't mention the current guidance for procurement, which is based on quality, value and price and also the flexibility of locality and community causes to benefit local communities. So, how will you ensure that the priorities you identify will not lead to higher cost, lower quality procurement and that issues such as cost, quality, value and community benefit are still at the centre of decisions made?

I thank the Member for getting the question in at the eleventh hour. It's a really key question in terms of actually making sure that we don't impact on things when we know that there's value there already. And like I said in the statement, there'll be more work to follow that sits in the broader opportunities of procurement reform, as we align ourselves in terms of the process with UK Government and actually how we can look at that across the piece. So, I know that my colleague the Minister for Finance and Local Government will be providing further updates on that. But we're very mindful that, like I said before, we don't want to create extra bureaucracy and we don't want to duplicate; we want to complement, enhance and make sure that it all fits together in much better ways in the future.

I have another Member now, in the fifty-ninth minute of the eleventh hour. I ask all Members that they try and get their requests in in appropriate time, please, so that it gives us an opportunity. Mike Hedges. And this is the last speaker. [Laughter.]

Diolch. Thank you. Can I just agree with what Sarah Murphy raised, because I think that's a matter that is going to be of grave concern and greater concern as time goes on?

But the question I want to ask is: what can we do to make contracts smaller? I agree that far too little is given out to smaller companies inside communities, but the reason is that people package it—including the Welsh Government, including local authorities—in such large contracts that only big companies can apply. If you take the A55 development, the last time it was put out, it was put out at such a size that no company in north Wales was able to apply, and all of the people who could apply were those from large companies dotted around the world. So, how do we get contracts smaller, so that local companies and local people can benefit?

I thank the Member for making it in with his question there, and again raising some very valid points around the accessibility of procurement and the opportunities that it brings, not just in terms of creating decent work, but actually in supporting those smaller companies, the foundational economy, local communities. So, it's certainly something that is there at the heart of looking at procurement reform, to make sure that those opportunities are there, for companies and for the people who could potentially work for them in the future in each and every one of our constituencies and communities across the country.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.