5. Statement by the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution: Codes of Welsh law: A programme to improve the accessibility of Welsh law

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:10 pm on 21 September 2021.

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Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 4:10, 21 September 2021

Diolch. In March, your predecessor as Counsel General issued a written statement in which he said that he wanted to ensure that more work to deliver more accessible law would be done in, quote, 'normal' times. He also referred to the passing of the Legislation (Wales) Act 2019 and said, quote,

'it will be for the next Government to bring forward the first formal programme of activity to make Welsh law more accessible under that Act', that work was already under way on two consolidation Bills and that the Welsh Government had three further projects under way in line with the intentions set out in 'The Future of Welsh Law' consultation in 2019. However, he added, quote,

'progress with these projects have been affected by the diversion of resources to respond to the pandemic'.

Given that the pandemic is still with us, why have you concluded that the 'normal' times referred to by your predecessor needed to progress this work have arrived and that the resources are now available for this?

The Legislation (Wales) Act was all about gathering law into different subject filing cabinets, with a headline statute and everything else made with reference to that statute—a huge undertaking designed to help the public find and use law themselves. You quote from the thirteenth-century Book of Iorwerth, Llyfr Iorwerth, a text of the Gwynedd or Venedotian code of medieval Welsh law, where the kingdom of Gwynedd, or Venedotia, was a Roman empire successor state that emerged in sub-Roman Britain in the fifth century. Well, as Leo Tolstoy also stated in the nineteenth century, writing laws is easy, but governing is difficult. And as Dame Hilary Mantel said in this century:

'When you are writing laws you are testing words to find their utmost power. Like spells, they have to make things happen in the real world, and like spells, they only work if people believe in them.'

Well, when the Welsh Government makes secondary legislation, MSs won't know it's happening most of the time, because they're made via a negative procedure, rather than the affirmative procedure and so come to Plenary. Although negative procedure secondary legislation is necessary to fill in procedural gaps in primary legislation, MSs won't necessarily know this is going through unless they're on the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee. It is this Welsh Parliament that makes law, and leaving it to committee to grumble about it after Welsh Government has made it via negative procedure isn't satisfactory. What assurance can you therefore provide regarding the issue raised by our excellent former colleague Suzy Davies MS during the Stage 4 debate on the Legislation (Wales) Bill, when she said,

'I hope, Counsel General, you'll also take on board that accessibility includes accessibility for AMs'— now MSs—

'and to consider perhaps better ways of bringing forward negative procedure secondary legislation to the attention of Assembly Members'—

Members of the Senedd—

'bearing in mind that we are deemed to consent to that, so it's always good at least to be able to know it exists.'

What is the total financial cost of this accessibility programme over the five-year period? What demand from the public has there been or has been measured for making the Legislation.gov.uk website more accessible, or is this just something that will benefit the legal sector at greater cost to the public purse?

And to conclude, the pandemic has shone a light on devolved powers, with many people in Wales still confused about which set of COVID regulations were applicable to them. With less than half the electorate voting for anyone in May's general election—the Welsh general election—it is clear that the democratic deficit in Wales is still alive and kicking, with many still not understanding where the decisions are taken, who is responsible and how much power the Welsh Government actually has over their lives. Therefore, how will the accessibility of Welsh law increase the public's understanding of devolved powers and devolved legislation so that they can access the correct information from the right place at the right time?