2. What action is the Welsh Government taking to ensure that the membership of the boards of public bodies reflect society? OQ56872

Thank you for that question. Work is ongoing to implement the recommendations of the diversity and inclusion strategy for public appointments in Wales, which is designed to increase the diversity of our public leaders, 'reflecting Wales in running Wales'. 

Thank you very much to the Minister for her response. In looking at the website of the Welsh Government, anyone can apply for a public appointment. But it is a complex process, with several forms and you need several qualifications too. There is inconsistency in terms of the roles and the wages as well. If we take an example on the website of Welsh Government at the moment, there is an advertisement for the vice-president of the National Library of Wales with no wage but the requirement for 18 days' work per year. So, what steps are the Welsh Government taking to ensure that anyone can apply, but that they can afford to do the work if they are appointed? 

Thank you very much for your question.  

This is very important indeed, because we are trying to break down the barriers in access to these all-important public bodies and to ensure that we are doing this. This is why we have developed a diversity and inclusion strategy, which was published last February. That particularly identified from a great deal of consultation that people from black, Asian and ethnic minority communities and disabled people are underrepresented groups on boards of public bodies. But we also know there are socioeconomic barriers as well in terms of accessing these public appointments.

You mentioned complex processes. That's something that we are constantly looking at. We do have to abide by the governance of the code on public appointments, but I'm constantly grilling that code in terms of looking at ways in which we can simplify it and make it more accessible. So, there are many things that we're doing in terms of enabling people to apply for public appointments, and I'm very pleased to welcome the all-Wales mentoring scheme called Equal Power, Equal Voice, run by Women's Equality Network Wales, Ethnic Minorities and Youth Support Team Wales, Disability Wales and Stonewall Cymru, and that's specifically targeting to recruit and mentor women, black, Asian, minority ethnic people, disabled people, LGBT people to be involved in public leadership and political office. 

I, too, believe that we need to have diversity in our public appointments. I do declare an interest: I was a previous member of Brecon Beacons National Park Authority, and I was sent there by my local authority to represent the residents of Powys. When I got there, I was shocked and dismayed to see that some of the appointees to the national park didn't even reside within the park boundary, and some of them were not even residents of Wales. And there was also a serious lack of representation from different backgrounds, such as young people, LGBT and BAME. And I always I do wonder how people who aren't from a community, who do not represent the diversity in that community, know what is best for the people who live there.

On public appointments, for example, only recently, a former senior political adviser to the Welsh Labour group and a Labour councillor was given a position on the board of Natural Resources Wales, and I am sure he was the best person for the job. But, surely, there must be a way in which this Senedd can scrutinise the appointments to our public bodies, because, to some, practices like this just look like jobs for the boys. We've been told in this place that we can do things differently here in Wales. So, Minister, will you look at exploring ways in which this Senedd can get more people and this Senedd involved in public appointments, to make sure the whole process increases diversity and is as open and transparent as possible? Diolch, Llywydd.  

The Member raises some important, pertinent questions, and others that I would dispute, because we abide by the code on public appointments—that governance. In fact, I'm very happy to share that with Members, to remind them of the process, the open and transparent arrangements, for appointment to public bodies. Of course, in terms of the body that you sat on—the Brecon Beacons National Park Authority—there are other routes into becoming a member, as you know. You were appointed by a local authority. And, of course, that applies to other public bodies in Wales.

But your experience, I think, in terms of recognising a lack of diversity, a lack of young people, is very relevant. So, I would also urge you to look at the report—the diversity and inclusion strategy—because it actually rigorously looks at ways in which we can improve the public appointments process. As a result of it, we are training cohorts of people, particularly those under-represented, to ensure that they can feel more able and supported in terms of applying for public bodies.

We have to also influence the public bodies themselves, so that they recognise they need to make a change in terms of leadership. We have a leadership training programme, fair recruitment practices, diversity and inclusion training, including anti-racism training, which is crucially important. But we also last year recruited 13 senior independent panel members from diverse backgrounds to sit on recruitment panels for public appointments in Wales. And that, again, was reaching out to not the great and the good, who often sit on those kinds of panels and bodies, as they're deemed to be; this is about people with lived experience of their local communities, of Wales, and indeed to make sure that we have more diversity.

I would urge you to back Equal Power, Equal Voice. You actually could mentor people coming forward for Equal Power, Equal Voice, because a lot of people need to have that mentoring and shadowing experience—they could shadow you. And in fact, colleagues from across this Chamber have mentored various schemes to enable people to get into public appointments. Some of us were at the very inspiring Ethnic Minority Welsh Women Achievement Association awards event on Friday night. And Rajma Begum, who won an award for arts, culture and sport, I was very pleased to see that she, as a result of mentoring, actually was able to be appointed—she put herself forward and was appointed to Sport Wales. So, you know, it can be done, and we all need, across this Chamber, to play our part in it.

I agree it's very important that membership of public bodies reflects society, but it's not only about protected characteristics; it's about life experiences. Too often, diversity deals with protected characteristics, not diversity of life experiences. What is being done to get members on boards from different life experiences in different parts of Wales, including different parts of towns and cities? And how many appointees come from the 20 most disadvantaged communities? My guess is none.

Diolch yn fawr, Mike Hedges. That's a really important question. I actually did mention earlier on that it's not just about protected characteristics and lack of diversity as far as that's concerned; it's also about socioeconomic experience. In the summer, as you know, I visited many projects to listen and meet people with lived experience of living in very disadvantaged communities, including Faith in Families in Swansea, in your constituency. The women I met there, the parents—the women with their children—they would be ideal to be sitting on public bodies. So, I'm very interested in the Swansea Poverty Truth Commission, because I think people, whether you be a school governor, there are ways in also, which of course we're encouraging. It's very good to start on the step, if you're going to community council, local government, school governors or community health councils, which have recently been advertising as well. So, that's a very relevant point that we will take back.