Questions now from the party spokespeople. Conservative spokesperson, Joel James.

Thank you, Llywydd. It has been reported that between 1990 and 2015 approximately 63 per cent of Uganda's forest was cut down. Esther Mbayo, Minister of the Presidency, stated in 2016 that a lot of illegal logging, and I quote, had involved

'security personnel, some politicians, [forest] officers, timber traders, charcoal dealers and the locals.'

Just before recess, the Size of Wales project, which is responding to the global need to reforest, and is part funded by the Welsh Government, recently celebrated the planting of 15 million trees in the Mount Elgon region of Mbale in Uganda—a feat well worth recognising by everyone in Wales.

A written question to the Minister for Social Justice has revealed that the Welsh Government have memorandums of understanding with four district Governments in the Mbale region of Uganda, however, these are not specifically for the long-term protection of the trees planted through the Size of Wales project. On the one hand, I can clearly see this Government's attempt to help reforest our planet and create sustainable livelihoods for subsistence farmers in Uganda, but on the other hand, I can see that you have failed to put in place any measures to safeguard the trees that this Government has extensively invested in. Can the Deputy Minister, or the Minister, explain why this Government would spend millions of pounds of public money planting trees in another country, and then not bother to put into place any agreement with the Ugandan Government—local or otherwise—to protect the Mount Elgon site from being targeted by illegal loggers?

Well, I thank the Member for that question. We did receive a question in the summer, to which I replied. I am very proud of the Size of Wales initiative here—a pioneering initiative in terms of the Wales and Africa programme. I urge you to actually meet those who are involved and have been involved in Size of Wales to learn from them the hugely important and constructive impact of Size of Wales. And, of course, what we do in terms of supporting this initiative is to provide funding and expertise to local and indigenous communities in tropical regions, and it's helping to support them to secure and sustain their precious forests, grow more trees and establish sustainable livelihoods. And that's about education, community engagement and advocacy, and Size of Wales does raise that awareness in Wales of the importance of tropical forests and trees in tackling climate change with local people and with local governments. And the fact that the £450,000 a year from Wales and Africa—. We were recently able to announce that partners in Uganda have now distributed over 15 million trees, working towards their target of 25 million by 2025.

Thank you, Minister, for confirming that you've got no agreements with the Ugandan authorities.

There are several major tree-planting projects in Uganda that have set out with the aim of planting forests and selling the carbon credits. The Minister will be aware that for every tonne of carbon kept in the trees and not released into the atmosphere, a carbon offset credit is produced. A carbon values literature review undertaken by the UK Government, published on 2 September this year, estimates that a tonne of carbon dioxide has the potential to be worth over £200 by 2030. Given the number of trees being planted in Mount Elgon, this means that there is a potential for the forest to be worth billions of pounds in carbon credits. It is interesting that this Government has chosen to place its policy of providing fruit, shade and fuel trees for the entire Mount Elgon region of Uganda by 2030 into its 'Prosperity for All: a Low Carbon Wales' report, and one of the project aims of the Size of Wales is exploring opportunities for sequestering carbon and the use of voluntary carbon markets.

First, Minister, can you confirm that this Government, through its Wales and Africa programme, will not be using the forest planted in Uganda to offset Welsh carbon emissions? And secondly, can you confirm what agreement you have in place to prevent the Ugandan Government from selling the carbon credits that will be generated from this 30 million tree project? Thank you.

Well, I'm very disappointed in your questions this afternoon. We have already responded in written form. And I'm very surprised because, you know, the Wales and Africa programme has always received cross-party support in this Senedd, including the Size of Wales, which, I have to say, was supported at the outset by many non-governmental organisations, including the Waterloo Foundation, who put in substantial funding to the Size of Wales, and indeed the governance of it, which we're very pleased—. I'm sure they will be ready to meet with you to put the record straight in terms of all the points that you have made. There is strong support and agreement as a result of a locally managed organisation in terms of the Size of Wales.

And can I just say how important this is? We have a conference about this in the coming weeks, and Lee Waters will be speaking at that conference, because it's directly linked also to our ambitions, our connections and partnerships in terms of the national forest. Every time a tree is planted in Uganda by the Size of Wales, a tree is planted in Wales. Every time a child is born in Wales, they will get a certificate saying that a tree has been planted in Uganda and a tree has been planted here in Wales. I was certainly very proud when I saw that those were coming through to every child in Wales. So, let's get the record straight, let's get the information to you from the Size of Wales directly, and I'm very disappointed that there appears to be this lack of understanding of what has always had strong cross-party support.

I agree with the Minister that the Wales and Africa programme is a very important programme. Sadly, carbon colonialism is on the rise in Africa, and the Minister will be aware that Uganda has a major issue with subsistence farmers being forcibly removed from their land to provide space for tree planting that, in turn, can be used for the selling of carbon credits and offsetting carbon emissions of western countries. Indeed, a report analysing Ugandan forestry policy highlighted that existing legal frameworks were found to be deficient in vital provisions such as the enforcement of tenure rights for local communities and in providing adequate and effective remedies in case these rights are violated.

Not all of the Mount Elgon area is in a protected zone. A considerable area is under private ownership. This Government's policy of reforesting the entire Mount Elgon region with fruit, shade and fuel trees would call for the removal of local farmers who operate on deforested land. Mount Elgon is a site where considerable bamboo farming and processing takes place. Removing these farmers would not only impact livelihoods, but the local culture of the Gisu community who see bamboo as a local delicacy. Can the Minister explain how it will ensure that no farmer is removed from their land to plant these trees? How will the Minister ensure that the Ugandan Government does not appropriate private land to meet the demands of the Size of Wales project? And finally, what steps will the Minister take so that this Parliament or the Welsh nation will not be accused of carbon colonialism on an international stage? Thank you.

Well, Llywydd, I have no evidence in terms of the script that is being ably read out by the Member this afternoon. Yes, clearly, we need to put the record straight on Size of Wales and the Wales and Africa programme. I'm glad you have returned to recognising support for the Wales and Africa programme, which has been running for 15 years with very strong mutually beneficial links with sub-Saharan Africa and with the memorandum of understanding and the links to the Government. You couldn't do this without that kind of recognition, but also, crucially, this is very linked to the United Nations' sustainable development goals and the decade of action towards agenda 2030.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Sioned Williams.

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, the programme for government contains few new commitments in relation to the issue of childcare. While the inclusion of continued investment in Flying Start and expanding the current offer to those in education and training are to be welcomed, this will do little to address the challenges faced by those with younger children who live on low incomes or who require wraparound care. Tackling gender inequality and closing the gender pay gap through improving access to childcare will not only mean better outcomes for women and their families, but also deliver economic benefits to Wales. The current childcare offer doesn't work for everyone, and by coming into effect from age three, many families have already by then had to take decisions about working arrangements. With that in mind, can the Minister advise what conversations she has had with colleagues about further investment in childcare provision during this Senedd term? Are there any plans to expand subsidised provision to younger children in recognition of the potential this has to improve both gender and social equality? Diolch.

Diolch, Sioned Williams. A crucially important question in terms of our objectives to tackle poverty and to recognise that the provision of childcare is an equality issue. Clearly, it's an anti-poverty issue and policy area, but it's also about early intervention into a child's life and, indeed, the whole family, as it is in terms of Flying Start. So, the programme for government continues to support our flagship Flying Start programme, but also additional funding is being made available for childcare where parents are in education and training, and that's recognised in the programme for government.

I was pleased to be able to come before the new Equality and Social Justice Committee on Monday this week, and we discussed these issues around looking at the importance of childcare and how we could address this in terms of reaching out. The responsibility of course lies with the Deputy Minister for Social Services, Julie Morgan, and I can confirm that I met with Julie Morgan very early after taking on this responsibility to look at the issues of childcare. I was very proud that we were the only country in the UK that provided free childcare for key workers during the lockdown. Seventeen thousand people work in the childcare sector, so it's also an employment issue. It's part of our economy. So, tackling barriers, improving chances for children, young people and their families are absolutely right at the top of my agenda and, indeed, that of the Welsh Government.

Thank you, Minister. Although steps to fund childcare for more families where parents are in education or training is to be welcomed—and you made reference to that—could you provide us with any further information about the nature of this additional funding and how consideration of inequalities steers these current plans?

I think it would be appropriate if the Deputy Minister for Social Services was able to update on the implementation of that addition, in terms of funding for parents who are in education and training in terms of access to childcare. But also, of course, there are other routes to support for parents in this, particularly in terms of further education and higher education. Although they weren't able to function last year, we have crèches and nurseries in many of our FE colleges across Wales, and indeed provide support in terms of access to childcare. But the childcare offer, of course, is crucially important in terms of the 30 hours that are offered to those in work and, indeed, during the school holiday programmes.

In the summer, I went to many projects—and I've mentioned one already in Swansea, Betws, and Caia Park was another, in Wrexham—where childcare is provided through our SHEP scheme, in terms of our school holiday enrichment programme, and also through the play schemes we've been funding, and the Summer of Fun. But clearly this is all part of having a holistic approach to childcare. I will just finally mention, Llywydd, that the free school breakfast programme, which again is back functioning, is also and has always been, I've felt, a really good way in which childcare for many is offered at the early start of the day with a nutritious breakfast.

Thank you, Minister. Of course, that isn't going to tackle the problems and gaps that there are for those children not at school.

I would also appreciate further information from you, perhaps, in relation to another challenge in this area. In a way, your last answer outlined that, because finding information is still a significant barrier for many parents. As you depicted in your response, the provision of childcare and financial support is a complex patchwork that is administered by various different organisations. So, has the Government given any consideration to how access to information could be improved, perhaps by having a one-stop digital shop, where parents could input their information and then get a full picture of the support that they are qualified for and where to access that support?

Thank you for the question. 

Every local authority does have, as I'm sure you will know, a duty to provide a family information service, including information about childcare availability. And I think your question has prompted the point about making sure that that's accessible and that parents are aware of it. So, I'll certainly take that back and also ask that question of my colleague Julie Morgan.

But I think it's also very important that we look to ways in which we are trying to support families in terms of tackling child poverty. Flying Start does give the best start in life, there's no question about that, improving the learning environment and outcomes as well. But it is also very important that we look at our income maximisation programme, where we're reaching out and have succeeded in ensuring that more families are able to increase their household income. And that does include also not just take-up of benefits but debt and financial advice and action to address the poverty premium where households pay disproportionately more for goods and services. Of course, this is a huge issue as we face the oncoming £20 cut to universal credit, a totally unnecessary cut by the UK Government, with all of the other issues that face families in need and poverty.