2. Will the Counsel General make a statement on the proposed constitutional convention? OQ56856

Thank you for that question. The discussions on the establishment of the independent commission on the constitutional future of Wales are continuing. I shall make a fuller statement to the Senedd in due course. 

I'm grateful for that full and comprehensive answer, Minister. It would be useful if you were able to provide us with a little more detail in terms of the timescale for that. You, like myself, have seen a number of commissions come, and their reports go. How will you ensure that this process is different? Because the one thing that we have all learnt over the last, certainly, two years is that devolution is dead. The process of devolution is over. What we need now is an entrenched constitution that provides this Parliament with the entrenched powers to enable it to get on with its job.

Well, listen, thank you again for that supplementary question. I do apologise if my immediate response was considered too brief. I have been giving quite a lot of quite detailed answers in scrutiny sessions with the Legislation, Justice and Constitution Committee and, indeed, when I made the statement earlier and on other occasions.

Before the summer recess, I announced that we would be delivering on our manifesto commitment and establishing an independent commission to consider the constitutional future of Wales. The Member is absolutely right about the dysfunction that exists within our constitutional structure. And of course, events may further intrude within those over the course of the coming few years. Those are all obvious to everyone.

When the First Minister has said in the past that he is concerned that the UK is closer to breaking up than at any stage in his lifetime, he is not just reflecting his views, he is reflecting views that exist, I believe, across parties. The only area where they don't seem to exist very consistently, actually, seems to be in No. 10 Downing Street at this particular stage.

But, you raise a very important point about what the purpose and the function will be and how it will operate. The stage that we are at at the moment is that we are in discussions with regard to the appointment of co-chairs, which I think is an innovation in itself, and also with members of the commission. I have been engaged also with my colleague Jane Hutt, the Minister for Social Justice, to ensure that what we do establish is a commission that, when it operates, as far as you can within the size of a commission of about 11 people, is one that will reflect the geography, the languages, the diversity and the equality of Wales. The key test, as I think you're really getting to with your supplementary question, is going to be the process of engagement with the people of Wales, particularly that section of society that does not normally engage in these processes, and the crux of it will be to establish a commission that people see as relevant to their future and the decisions that impact on their lives. 

There will be further statements over the coming weeks. The Member will understand that, when we are in the process of the establishment of the commission, it is not possible to say everything that is under way. But progress is being made, and I would hope that we will bring these matters to a conclusion within the course of the next six weeks or so. 

I'm grateful to the Member for Blaenau Gwent for raising this important issue today. Plaid Cymru has been calling for a constitution commission for some time. Our idea was for a commission to consult with citizens about the different constitutional options for our future as a nation. Now, Minister, the remit of the Government's commission hasn't been published yet, so I believe that this is an appropriate time to urge you to ensure that this remit isn't too narrowly drawn by ignoring independence. Given that around a third of the population now supports independence, it is entirely appropriate that it is included as part of the wider discussion, as well as other options, such as the current devolution settlement, or some form of federalism, as you support. 

Can you, Minister, therefore say whether you agree that a wide-ranging constitutional discussion is needed, so that it is truly meaningful, and that you won't omit independence from that discussion?

Well, I can give you the assurance that I think I gave also when I originally issued the statement on this issue, that the commission, when it goes out to engage with people, has to be inclusive. It cannot say to people, 'There are certain things you can or that you can't discuss.' I think one of the problems with how the commission may present its work is that it is very easy to fall into, I suppose, the trap of preconceived positions that political parties have, that we all have, in terms of our own views and sometimes forget that the purpose of this commission is to engage across Wales, with the people of Wales, to try and develop an understanding and a consensus of those key issues that impact on people's lives, how those decision-making processes can be better, how we can engage better with the nations around us, what changes need to take place, and I think, importantly—which probably comes to the area that you're more focusing on—in the event of there being changes in the constitutional structure of the UK, for whatever reason, that we are able to consider, and we are in a position to consider, the options that are open to the people of Wales.

So, I don't know if that answers adequately your question, but I think the point I'm making is that it has to be inclusive, it has to be far-reaching, but we mustn't fall into the trap, I think, of preconceived positions that are pejorative and that might hamper the commission from actually doing its job, which is to engage with the people of Wales and to identify with those issues that are most important and that impact on the lives of the people of Wales.