2. What discussions has the Minister had with the Minister for Health and Social Services regarding the workplace safety regulations that employers in South Wales East are expected to follow? OQ56929

I can confirm that my officials drafted the 'Keep Wales safe at work' guidance, and in doing so consulted health and social services colleagues. This guidance was then discussed and approved at Cabinet. The guidance sets out the obligations on people responsible for premises open to the public or where work takes place, and reasonable measures that must be assessed and risk assessments completed with their staff and their representatives.

Thank you, Minister, for that initial answer. I've received a letter from the Public and Commercial Services union raising, and I quote, 'real concerns about safety being compromised by Department for Work and Pensions management in Newport, recklessly putting both staff and claimants at risk at Newport jobcentre'. The letter notes a series of concerning issues, Minister, relating to a lack of physical distancing, poor ventilation and cuts to cleaning. Two members of staff are, as I understand, being compelled to work in the jobcentre when they are close contacts of children in their households who've tested positive for COVID. With the imminent ending of furlough, there will be presumably even more pressure on DWP services and we could see even more people being brought into these unsafe spaces and an increase in COVID in the community. Would you agree with me, Minister, that public sector workers deserve certainty and security when it comes to knowing they won't be put in dangerous situations at work?

And finally, Minister, what urgent actions will you take to protect workers and claimants at Newport jobcentre and centres across Wales to ensure safety standards are enforced and that not one member of staff or the public are put at increased risk?

Well, this doesn't sound wildly dissimilar to some of the challenges we had with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency earlier in the pandemic. And I know that there are Members who have workers in the DVLA based in Swansea who will recall the difficulty in engaging with the employer at that time. So, I want to restate a couple of what should be straightforward points. The law in Wales applies to every employer in Wales in the private and public sectors when it comes to the expectation that they undertake risk assessments, and undertake them properly, publish the information, and do so with their staff. The consistent message here in Wales, from this Government, is you should work from home wherever possible. Now, I understand that there'll be conversations that employers will have with their employees about the ability to work from home—for some people, it isn't always possible to do all of their job from home. But, also, there are reasons why people may want to return to the workplace—there are particular well-being considerations for the workforce, about people positively wanting or needing to be within the workplace. That does not mean, though, that employers should simply insist that staff return to a pre-pandemic way of working, in tightly fitted and enclosed offices.

I understand the Member has referred to the PCS union, and we of course talk to the PCS union and employers across the country on a regular basis. If there are real concerns they're not able to resolve with the employer, I would expect those matters to be escalated as appropriate, and that includes making sure that everyone is following the requirements of the law here in Wales, and that includes paying proper regard to the advice from this Government about how to keep all of us safe, as this pandemic is not yet over.

Minister, you've probably covered most of this anyway in what you've just said, but the pandemic meant that many conventional working methods were severely impacted, and one of those methods that was turned upside down was working from the office. Homeworking, according to the Royal Society for Public Health, is having an adverse impact on many people's mental health, with 56 per cent of those asked saying they found it harder to switch off whilst working from home, and 67 per cent saying they felt less connected to colleagues. Whilst homeworking may be beneficial to business and organisations, and perhaps society as a whole at the moment, it's clear that employees using their houses as makeshift offices is not only potentially harmful to the economy, but it's also damaging to their mental health. Will the Minister outline what steps are being taken to encourage more people to perhaps start working from the office again? And that could apply to this place also.

Well, the Member sets out some of the impact on some people who have worked from home. And I recognised it in my first answer—there are reasons about people's well-being where people may want to return to the office for some of the week. But the guidance and the advice from this Government is to work from home where you can. And the reason for that is that the clear advice we have is it makes a really big difference to preventing the spread of COVID, and, as we've said time and time again, the pandemic is not yet over. This is about how we manage to get to the end of the pandemic without having unnecessary harm. So, actually, this isn't about simply saying everyone should come back to work in the office as if the times were past and we were back in pre-pandemic working. But, equally, for some people, working from home has been a real improvement in their quality of life—in balancing responsibilities outside work, as well as with work. There are many businesses who recognise they've actually had productivity gains from people being able to work remotely as well. And in my conversations with business groups, they're very clear that the old ways of working are not likely to return in exactly the same way. There are productivity gains from people who will want to carry on working from home for some of the week, even when the pandemic is over, as well as wanting to be in an office. So, it's the balance of all of those things, but, at this point in time, I reiterate again, the advice from this Government, supported by public health, is to work from home wherever possible. Of course, you'll note that, across our border, whilst the UK Government aren't currently giving that advice, they recognise that it may be something they ask people to do if the pandemic continues to take off in England as well.