2. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to deliver a fair deal for social care staff? OQ57009

I thank Carolyn Thomas, Llywydd, for that question. Last year, we convened the social care fair work forum, to look at how the terms and conditions of the workforce can be improved. We are committed to paying social care workers the real living wage in this Senedd term and are working with partners to take this forward.

Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I welcome the Welsh Labour Government's commitment to creating a stronger and better-paid workforce, and in particular the decision that care workers should be paid the real living wage and that this will be delivered during the current Senedd. I have been contacted by residents working in the sector who love their job, but the last few years have understandably taken a toll. One constituent in particular explained that, last year, she had worked Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day with no enhancement of pay. Can you reassure these residents that this Welsh Government is fully committed to improving working conditions, as well as pay, for those working in the social care sector in Wales, so that they can continue to provide the exemplary care they are relied upon for and that they really enjoy doing? Thank you.

Llywydd, I think Carolyn Thomas makes a very important point. We are committed to the real living wage in the social care sector and to funding it. But the challenge of recruiting and retaining the skilled workforce in social care is more than simply a pay issue. It does, quite definitely, depend upon decent working terms and conditions being offered to people who do this vitally important work. Now, back in 2017, the Senedd legislated to deal with some of the most egregious examples of where terms and conditions were not being observed, including—some Members will be familiar with this—what's called the 'clipping' practice, and we legislated to put regulations around the practice of zero-hours contracts in the system. And, indeed, over the pandemic, the Welsh Government has funded proper sick pay for social care workers because we knew that anything up to 80 per cent of employers did not provide occupational sick pay in this sector.

Now, the social care fair work forum is looking at the wider package of reforms that are needed if people in this sector are to be properly valued and retained. And we know that in a very, very diverse workforce there are some employers who do absolutely the right thing by their employees, and we know that there are those who continue, for example, to ask their employees to pay for the costs of their own uniforms, to pay for the costs of their own DBS checks. And in a sector where we have to work harder to make sure that we're able to make those jobs attractive to people, there still are practices that do not support that sector-wide requirement. So, our ambition is to work with the best employers, and there are many of them, in the sector, and then to persuade the rest of the employers in social care that, alongside the money the Welsh Government will invest on paying the real living wage, they have to do more to make sure that the terms and conditions under which people are employed continue to attract people into this vital work. 

First Minister, one of the things that has been welcomed by my party is the social care financial payment—the bonus payment—which, of course, many people are receiving in their pay packets this month. But those bonus payments must get through to everybody who is part of that social care workforce, who's been working on the front line during the pandemic, and that includes advocacy workers who are not employed directly by local authorities. Unfortunately, I've been informed by Dewis—the Dewis Centre for Independent Living, which has offices in my constituency, in Colwyn Bay, provides advocacy services to people with mental health problems and disabilities across the whole of Conwy and Denbighshire—that its advocates are not eligible for the bonus payment, while people in neighbouring local authorities who are advocates but work for the local authority are receiving these payments. That, to me, doesn't seem like a very level playing field. Can I ask, First Minister, will you look into this in order that those people who have been doing valuable work, going into people's homes at very difficult times during the pandemic, do have the opportunity to benefit from these bonus payments in recognition of their work? 

Well, Llywydd, the Welsh Government was very pleased to be able to provide a payment of £500 early in the pandemic, and £735 later in the pandemic—£735 because we failed to persuade the UK Government to allow that payment to be made without it being subject to tax and national insurance contributions. Sixty-four thousand workers in the sector have benefited from those payments. I am, of course, willing to look into any anomaly, and I'll take up the point that the Member has made specifically, while endorsing the point he originally made about the recognition that those payments were designed to give to people who do these jobs for us here in Wales.FootnoteLink 

Information further to Plenary

When I raised the issue of reduced day-care centre provision in Caerphilly County Borough Council for disabled adults and the implications this has for clients, their families and staff, you referred the matter to Caerphilly County Borough Council. Well, it may be a coincidence, but the Labour administration there decided to take a step back and consult properly on the matter. The old Welsh idiom of taro'r post i'r pared glywed springs to mind. You will also be pleased to hear that my colleague Delyth Jewell and I met with the council leader and the cabinet member for social services on this matter yesterday. During that meeting, it was stressed by them that the recruitment of social care staff is difficult and will continue to be so until there is parity between their wages and NHS staff. Can you accelerate your plans for fairer pay for social care workers in light of household budgets being squeezed and winter fuel prices increasing?

I certainly agree that people who work in the sector will feel the impact of the failures of the UK Government to contain the rises in energy prices, in food prices, and to have had a workable plan for the way in which the United Kingdom has withdrawn from the European Union. The Welsh Government led a successful recruitment campaign for social care workers in August and September, and I've seen the encouraging results of that campaign, encouraging enough for us to want to use the campaign again at the end of this month and into the autumn and winter to try to do everything we can to bring the many benefits that people who work in the sector feel from the important work that they do. We want to roll out a real living wage, but we will wait for the advice of the social care fair work forum in doing that, because we need to be confident that the money that the public purse will provide will make its way directly into the pay packets of those who it is intended to advantage.