7. Debate on a Member's Legislative Proposal: An employee ownership Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:08 pm on 20 October 2021.

Alert me about debates like this

Photo of Joel James Joel James Conservative 5:08, 20 October 2021

I'd like to start by thanking the Member for raising this debate and for the way in which he's put forward his argument. Though I recognise the reasons why the Member has brought forward these proposals, I nonetheless think that the Member is off-kilter on what the potential benefits of implementing a 1980s Italian-style Marcora law in Wales would be, and I'm also concerned that the Member is asking the Welsh Government to consider radical economic proposals when they are already struggling to implement current legislation that they've already agreed to.

As we all know in the Chamber, the UK Government is very open in its support for co-operative businesses and how they would like to grow the co-operative sector in this country. The co-operative employee-ownership model is seen by many in the United Kingdom, across all political spectrums, as being good for workers, local communities and businesses. Indeed, the Conservative UK Government has recognised this and has introduced a series of measures to support and protect the sector. One such example is the Co-operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2014, which has substantially cut the legal complexities involved in running co-operatives, and, alongside this legislation, we have seen an increase in the amount of withdrawable share capital a member can invest in co-operatives from £20,000 to £100,000. This has given a number of co-operatives in this country much needed and greater flexibility in raising capital.

Furthermore, I understand the UK Government has highlighted again and again that they're very much open to receiving credible proposals for this reform, and Her Majesty's Treasury continually engages with the co-operative sector to maximise its potential. My Labour colleagues should be looking at this route rather than trying to argue for what they see to be trendy European policies that are nearly 40 years old.

With specific regard to the introduction of the Marcora law in Wales, I think Members need to recognise that there are clear differences between the Italian and UK economies now and the Italian and UK economies of the 1980s. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development currently has UK unemployment at 4.7 per cent, whilst it was at 8 per cent in Italy prior to the introduction of the Marcora law. It then shot up to about 10 per cent and has averaged at that level ever since. It is currently at 9.3 per cent. Furthermore, in addition to the UK's comparatively low unemployment rate, we also have unprecedented levels of job support, helping those who find themselves unemployed back into work as quickly as possible. This means, according to the latest OECD data, that UK workers are less likely than Italian workers to be unemployed for substantial periods of time. This not only shows that there's a clear disparity between the two nations, but if there were any positive outcomes to the introduction of the Marcora law in Italy, these would not be felt as strongly in Wales. Welfare savings are often highlighted as one of the main benefits of the Marcora law, but since UK workers are considerably less likely to remain on long-term unemployment, it's far from clear whether or not a Marcora-style employment policy would deliver this for Wales.

So, let's bring this back into the realms of reality. Co-operative businesses purchased by workers in Italy under the Marcora law are part funded by three years' worth of surrendered unemployment benefits. So, basically, if the worker buy-out co-operative goes bust—