I'm really glad to hear that you're not opposed to the idea of employee ownership and co-operative models of worker ownership. I would just say to him, don't look back at that 1980s model. Actually look at working with us on what a new model would look like to achieve exactly the same end.

That brings me to Vikki Howells, who spoke to us in a tale of two halves, very like the Tower story itself—a group of people who came together, did an employee buy-out and actually gave two decades of further life to that, and are now reinventing it again for another era  with the money that they've reinvested rooted in those communities—in the wealth of those communities. And look, if they can create an opera about this, which would seem such a mundane thing, we're in business, I'm telling you. 

Finally, Minister, I'm delighted that in response you did lay out exactly what this Welsh Government is doing already, and it is extensive; it is huge, the ambition behind it, including working with the co-operative centre, the European funding that's currently going on, which we need to replace to go into this support, Business Wales, the Development Bank of Wales, and you'll explore more options. I was so delighted to hear you say you have an open mind on the question of legislation. In that case, Minister, as a fellow co-operator, let's sit down and discuss it.