5. Statement by the Minister for Economy: A greener economy

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 4:51 pm on 2 November 2021.

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Photo of Vaughan Gething Vaughan Gething Labour 4:51, 2 November 2021

Thank you for the series of questions and comments. On your point about land use, I think the Welsh Government's pretty clear that we expect land use in Wales to be sustainable and beneficial for local populations and the economy. So, we're looking at how we can incentivise people to make proper use of the land that's available, but to do so in a way that meets the tests that we would set. So, we're certainly not encouraging companies to try to buy land here in Wales to try to avoid and offset their activities in other parts of the UK or the rest of the world. 

On your point about hydrogen, I just want to reiterate that, of course, the First Minister made it very clear in questions today that this Government is very clear that we should be investing in green hydrogen, and that's what we want to see. And there are real opportunities within that, not just within the investment—and it is welcome investment in the HyNet process across the north-west of England through the north of Wales, but it is also the opportunity to see what also comes from the potential for offshore energy production as well and what that might mean in terms of increasing our ability for genuine green hydrogen production. Now, that requires some of the points I made in my statement: clarity on the investment framework, the ability to invest against it, and UK Government choices as well as the willingness of this Government to help people to invest in early industries. The danger is otherwise that what will happen is that we'll see what happened with onshore wind, where Denmark in particular managed to invest early and then exported technology, which meant that a lot of the gain was made in Denmark. Now, that's meant that we've got efficient ways of producing onshore wind energy, but actually I'd much rather see an opportunity to be early movers in an industry where we're already seeing some of this taking place in other parts of Europe as well. So, the investment to date in hydrogen is welcome, but I would like to see more of that take place. It's also a crucial issue for the south Wales corridor, as well as going across north Wales, too.

On your points about the challenge of how we use the economic contract and the levers within it, this matters for small, medium and larger businesses. You can't get an economic contract unless you're ready to sign up to demands that are going to be changing. So, you won't see extractive, large companies in Wales that are going to have economic contracts; they're going to need to sign up to the ways of working and to giving back to make sure that it really is something for something, if they want the support that this Government can and is prepared to provide, both to see jobs kept in Wales as well as investment to create new jobs in Wales. And that is one of the positives that a cynical young man like yourself might want to see as a positive, that there is an opportunity to create new jobs for the future that will be good jobs, well-paid jobs that can exist in different parts of Wales. We don't need to see the stripping out of highly paid employment to be replaced by much lower grade employment with lesser wages as well. And it's one of the things where we're really keen to grasp the opportunity as we look to our shared future. 

I think I've mentioned the points about working with Ministers in climate change on improving the charging infrastructure. It's a challenge we've recognised, and again there are choices we could make on a more efficient basis if we could work alongside the UK Government in doing so. That would require the sharing of an approach.

I want to make the point again on land use and your point about climate change, and some of the challenges we see. It's why I mentioned coal tip remediation in the statement, because you're seeing a Government that is determined to invest in that in the United States. Again, parts of the United States are scarred and affected by their own industrial legacy as well. They're investing in that. There's a federal Government investing in that, working with the state Government. You could see that here as well, if the UK Government were prepared to look at their responsibility and the legacy that isn't devolved to actually work with us to have a proper plan to both deal with the environmental damage and impact of that legacy, but also to see jobs and again skills that could be exported, because we think that it's inevitable that other parts of the world will have to go through the same process of remediation from coal tip and extraction over the next coming decades.

And on your point about steel co-operatives, we're actually looking rather more at the way in which steel is currently produced and our ability to work alongside the companies that are here already. We have companies in Wales and across the UK. If there are opportunities for co-operatives, I certainly wouldn't turn them down, but I don't think that's a realistic answer for the way the UK industry is currently structured. Our bigger concern is making sure that well-paid employment doesn't disappear; that we don't see a decarbonisation transition that costs lots of jobs in a way that is avoidable if we can see the right sorts of investment choices and action on energy pricing as well.

And on your broader point about indicators as well as GDP, then, yes, I am open to conversations and discussions. We've had some of those with you and some of your colleagues on what a well-being economy looks like and how we measure success, but of course we have a range of those already and what they look like with our future generations Act, how we look to try to understand, this is the footprint of what we think should work, how we should value investment, and how we will then measure our ability to make steps forward on having a genuine well-being economy here in Wales in the future.