6. Statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language: Implementation of net zero carbon and the 21st century schools and colleges programme

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 5:22 pm on 2 November 2021.

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Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 5:22, 2 November 2021

I think the Member asked four questions, broadly speaking—two of which were answered in the statement, and two of which weren’t. So, just to confirm, as I made clear in the statement, there is a clear recognition of the additional costs of a net-zero carbon specification, and I recognise the figures that she indicated in her question. Just in the way that we’ve covered those costs as additional costs in the net-zero pilots that we’ve been running in various parts of Wales, as I indicated in my statement, we will continue to meet those costs in relation to schools that come forward under the new specification within this current wave of investment. The whole point about this, as has happened in the past, is that when the specification of any construction, indeed—but in this context, schools—changes, there is initially a cost implication to that, for reasons which you will understand, but that cost, ultimately, reduces and becomes part of the standard specification, and we expect that will happen in this case as well. But in the short term, whilst the market adjusts to the specification and the supply chain adjusts to it, we recognise the need to support that investment, and that’s why I made it clear in my statement that we’d continue to fund 100 per cent of the additional costs of the net-zero carbon commitment under this current wave.

In relation to schools currently in the system, which was her second question, I made it clear in my statement that the requirement will apply to all business case proposals that have not received approval at an outline business case stage by 1 January 2022. So, if the school’s already being built, by definition, it has already passed that stage. So, I hope that clarifies that point for the Member.

On the two other points which she raised, both of which I think are very important points, it is true to say, obviously, large parts of the school estate in Wales are older buildings, and so she makes an important point about how we can make sure that those schools are also able to play their part in the journey that we are on towards a net-zero Wales. The plan which the First Minister and the Minister for Climate Change announced last week makes it clear that there is work to do to map out the school estate in Wales to understand, really on a school-by-school basis, what the needs are, and that will then provide a platform for a retrofit programme, effectively. But that’s a longer term ambition, frankly, and it’s a much more complex ambition.

I was speaking to people at the school in Llancarfan yesterday about the challenges of, if you're going to introduce an air-source heat pump in an older school, it's not as if it were simply the question of installing the pump; it's the distribution system, it's the insulation in the school, so it's a much more complex project. But that work is outlined in the plan that the First Minister and the Minister for Climate Change announced last week.

On the question of the sustainable schools challenge fund, I will be making more details obviously available of this in the way that she asks in the question. The questions she raises are perfectly, obviously, legitimate questions. She makes the point about shouldn't all schools be in this category. I suppose my thinking here is that we would expect these schools to be particularly innovative in the use of the products, for example. So, you might imagine wood construction and other sorts of pretty innovative ways of construction, and the design of it, is done in conjunction with school users. I think what we want to do is understand how that concept can work in practice and then take the parts of it that work and apply them more broadly. So, that's the thinking behind it, and I hope that, you know, when the plan is ultimately launched, that there will be interest in all corners of Wales. I certainly hope I'll see that.