Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

1. Questions to the Minister for Economy – in the Senedd at 1:42 pm on 3 November 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 1:42, 3 November 2021

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservatives spokesperson first—Tom Giffard. These questions are to be answered by the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport. Tom Giffard. 

Photo of Tom Giffard Tom Giffard Conservative

Diolch yn fawr, Llywydd. Deputy Minister, I wanted to start by asking questions about the parts of your portfolio that have perhaps been most severely affected during the COVID pandemic, and those are the tourism and hospitality sectors. These industries have seen prolonged closures, greater social distancing, having to operate at reduced capacity, and, as a result, a greater loss of revenue than their counterparts elsewhere in the UK. Thankfully, the improved public health position, thanks to the UK-wide vaccine roll-out, has meant a number of these restrictions have since been lifted. But, after the health Minister's statement yesterday, which said the Welsh Government intended to extend COVID passes further into hospitality venues, such as cinemas, theatres and concert halls, this showed us that this part of the industry probably will have more to deal with, going forward. But the wider industry may have more to worry about too. The First Minister last Friday alluded to the idea that further restrictions are set to come, impacting hospitality and tourism businesses even further, but, yet, he never said what those would be. So, while the expectation is that these businesses prepare for this, how can they prepare if they don't know what the restrictions will be? So, can I invite you, Deputy Minister, to make that clear on the record now, so that these businesses can properly do that? And will you also confirm that any restrictions or change in the rules that will impact hospitality and tourism businesses will be accompanied by the financial support that these businesses will need? 

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 1:43, 3 November 2021

Can I thank Tom Giffard for that comment? As the Member knows, we are still facing a very challenging situation around COVID. We are still seeing significant levels of infections, and we know that a number of premises, events, hospitality organisations and venues are very high-risk venues, because primarily they tend to be indoors. Now, the First Minister did signal at the last COVID review that if the situation does not improve—and that would be taken in the round; it is not just about the number of cases, but the impact on the NHS and on communities as a whole—he would have to consider whether we extended the COVID pass into other areas. He already announced that the COVID pass will be extended to theatres, cinemas and concert halls.

To deal specifically with the point about hospitality, I think it's important to understand that what the extension of any COVID pass into those areas is aimed at doing is ensuring that those venues can remain open. He will remember, last year, we faced a very, very difficult winter, and at very short notice, all hospitality—pubs, restaurants and hospitality venues—was closed down for a considerable number of weeks, and that's what we want to avoid this year. So, the extension of COVID passes needs to be seen in that context, and needs to be seen as something that will aid keeping those venues open rather than being seen as a restriction to the operation of those venues.

The other thing I would say in terms of ongoing support is I continue to have regular discussions with my colleague the Minister for Economy, Vaughan Gething, about what relevant support can be put in place if this situation continues, and restrictions continue, and if the impact on those businesses continues indefinitely, or certainly for the foreseeable future. So, those are discussions that are ongoing, and we keep that under constant review.

Photo of Tom Giffard Tom Giffard Conservative 1:46, 3 November 2021

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for that answer. I just wanted to turn to sport and major events. During our previous exchange in the Chamber some four months ago, I raised concerns about the confusion surrounding the legislation on some of the pilot schemes on sport and major events at the time, where there were different rules for different settings. And you in your answer claimed the guidance was clear and the confusion surrounding the regulations was down to the individual venues and businesses.

Since that time, the Welsh Government report 'Pilot Events: Report on Findings' has been released, and it highlighted that there were major problems around confusion about rules, about whether there had been different rules for different venues around social distancing adherence and mask compliance. But even now these restrictions have been eased, it's clear a lot of these issues still remain. So, recent sporting events, such as last week's Wales versus New Zealand game, showed that mask adherence by spectators was patchy at best, and many constituents that have contacted me said there was very little enforcement of that either.

So, enforcement of the rules has also been at best problematic. COVID passes were enforced for this fixture, but many who attended told me they were never asked for theirs. Now, I understand that they would be carried out by spot checks, but what percentage of spectators did you expect would be asked for one, and did last weekend's game meet those targets? The continued poor enforcement of your own rules leads me to also ask: what lessons were actually learnt from that initial pilot, and why do these issues remain today? Surely, don't you agree, Minister, that instead of introducing a slew of new rules at the next review, we just need to better enforce the existing ones? 

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 1:47, 3 November 2021

In terms of the New Zealand and Wales game last Saturday, you're quite right, COVID passes were used, and, actually, the feedback that we received is that the implementation of the pass at that game went remarkably well, and fans were extremely compliant, with about 90 per cent of the audience being in the stadium at least 30 minutes before the game kicked off. 

Now, as you quite rightly pointed out, it was never the intention that 100 per cent of attendees at this would be using, or would have their COVID pass checked because that would have been operationally impossible to do safely with the size of the expected crowd, and the limited space in the stadium footprint. But as many checks as possible were implemented, and it was deemed to be relatively successful. 

Now, in terms of face coverings, of course, it's an outdoor event, so face coverings were not required, although fans were asked to wear face coverings in the concourse areas and going through turnstiles and so on. And there was general compliance with that as well. But as it was a largely outdoor event, then that wasn't a requirement. And what I would say is: with all of our—[Inaudible.]—events, we are continually reviewing and revising how the measures are implemented, and how they're monitored, and how they are enforced. For many events, the enforcement is down to the venue itself. In other settings, the enforcement is down to the local authority. 

But, as I say, generally speaking, we have had positive feedback from that experience, and it's something that we intend to continue monitoring as we go forward. 

Photo of Tom Giffard Tom Giffard Conservative 1:49, 3 November 2021

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for that answer. I'm interested though, you mentioned about COVID passes being enforced by spot checks. I asked for the percentage of spectators that went to that game that would be expected to have their COVID passes checked, and I didn't appear to hear an answer. So, presumably, if you're going to introduce a rule like that, you would have an expectation as to how many people in attendance at that event would have that checked. So, I'd be grateful if you could pick that up in your next answer. 

But, to me, it's clear that the sports and major events industry as well as the hospitality and tourism industry in your portfolio have had to contend with restrictions on their day-to-day operations over the last 18 months, and they've faced a lot of upheaval as a result of the Welsh Government's decision making. For hospitality, they've dealt with longer closures than elsewhere in the UK. The 2m rule was in place, for example, for longer in Wales, and self-isolation requirements have also affected staff shortages, and that has been different too. Whereas the sporting and major events industry has dealt with its own restrictions like COVID passes, which we've discussed, masks in seats and had their venues closed for longer. All of these yet again going further than other parts of the UK. So, therefore, it's clear you've taken a very different approach in Wales to elsewhere in the UK, and it is these industries in your portfolio that have had to deal with the greatest impact as a result of these decisions. 

As I'm sure you'd agree, Deputy Minister, it would be wholly inappropriate to lump all of these decisions and therefore the accountability into a public inquiry with England. So, Deputy Minister, in light of the impact on your portfolio specifically, do you agree with me it's time for a Welsh COVID inquiry?

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Heledd Fychan.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. Over half term, museums across Wales took part in the Welsh museums festival. It's an opportunity to discuss the crucial role of museums of all sizes and shapes and the positive impact that they have in so many different ways, including on our economy. However, as a recent report by the British Museums Association shows, over the last decade, spending of local authorities on museums and galleries in Wales has fallen by 31 per cent, reflecting just how much local authority budgets have been cut in terms of what they're able to invest in non-statutory services.

If this trend continues, then there is a very real possibility that museums in Wales will close and that we will have to further reduce the services or opening hours, having a negative impact on local economies, our tourism offer, as well as the well-being of users and all the wonderful far-reaching projects that they deliver as a sector. What steps are being taken by the Welsh Government to safeguard local museums after a decade of austerity?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 1:52, 3 November 2021

I thank Heledd Fychan for that question and I think her final point there was a very relevant one. You know, what we have seen in the museum sector, as in other sectors of my portfolio, is the impact of 10 years of Tory austerity, which has filtered through to local authorities and to the organisations that they have to fund.

However, what I also agree with her on is the fact that our museums are hugely important to our communities, they're important to our education service, they're important for people's mental health and well-being, and all the other aspects of the programme for government that we have published. The work of museums feeds into all of that. So, we clearly have an interest in making sure that they continue and that they thrive and that they provide the service that they have done over many years. One of the things that we're looking at is helping them to develop, for instance, their digital offer, which makes museums far more accessible to more people than have previously been. That was something that we picked up through the pandemic. 

But what you will also be aware of, of course, is that we're currently in the process of assessing what the comprehensive spending review in the UK budget meant for Wales and how that will impact on all of the bodies that we have to finance from the Welsh budget. And those discussions will be ongoing and continuing with the national museums and the trade unions within the sector to ensure that those bodies are adequately funded to do all the things that we've set out in our programme for government.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 1:54, 3 November 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, Deputy Minister. But, the challenges facing local museums are nothing new, and for a number of years now we've heard words from Ministers but haven't seen action. Indeed, due to the concerns about the sector, the Welsh Government commissioned a review of local museums in 2015. The review noted that local museums didn't have the resources or capacity, and the Minister at the time, Ken Skates, committed that his officials would look at the opportunities provided by the well-being of future generations Act to support and develop museums. So, why has the Welsh Government still not implemented the recommendations of its own report in full? Can you provide a timetable in terms of when they will be implemented or tell us why a decision was taken not to implement these?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 1:55, 3 November 2021

The tailored review that you talk about, of course, did come with a number of recommendations, and a considerable amount of Welsh Government funding and support that went alongside that. We continue to have those discussions with the museum, and with the trade unions in the museum, about ensuring that the recommendations of that tailored review are fully implemented.

It has been problematic because of some of the issues within the museum that you'll be aware of. We've not had a president in the museum for some time. We have now been advertising for a—sorry, it's not a president in the museum; that was in the library, so I do apologise. We've had the issues of the tailored review that we've been applying funding to, and we've had the ongoing discussions with the museum about how those aspects of the review will be implemented.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 1:56, 3 November 2021

I'm talking specifically, Minister, about local museums and the review in 2015 that was conducted, rather than the Simon Thurley review of National Museum Wales. There were 10 recommendations in the local museum review that are yet to be implemented, despite the sector writing on numerous occasions and despite pleas by organisations such as the Museums Association and National Museum Wales, which are desperately wanting to support the sector.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Wales was the first nation in the UK to publish a strategy for museums as a whole. It was a strategy that was welcomed by the sector. Now, this came to an end in 2015, having been established in 2010, and although work has been ongoing on the new strategy since 2018, Wales does not have a strategy for museums now. When will this strategy be completed? What resources will be available to enable the sector as a whole to play its full part in terms of the seven well-being aims of the Well-being of Future Generations (Wales) Act 2015, including the economic contribution of the sector?

Photo of Dawn Bowden Dawn Bowden Labour 1:57, 3 November 2021

As I said in response to an earlier question, Heledd, I'm not in a position yet to tell you about funding because that is where we are currently at, in terms of looking at how all of our organisations are funded and what funding is to be allocated to each of those sectors.

In terms of the museums review, I would want to be reviewing where we are with that now, because we have talked previously about the wider cultural strategy, and I think all of that will fit into that as well, but I do take the point that there is a bespoke piece of work that has been done. I need to review where we are at with that, and I will make sure that you're updated when I review that and have a look at that following this discussion today.