3. Statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language: The Tertiary Education and Research (Wales) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:30 pm on 3 November 2021.

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Photo of Jeremy Miles Jeremy Miles Labour 3:30, 3 November 2021

(Translated)

I thank the Member for her questions and for the welcome that she’s given to the Bill, and the questions that deal with very important areas, many of them having been raised, as she mentioned, by stakeholders during the process—the extended process of consulting since the draft Bill was introduced.

In terms of the learner voice, I think that there is new emphasis in the Bill on that in the wake of what we’ve heard from stakeholders. So, from my perspective, the learner journey, and ensuring that that’s a smooth one through the system, is vital to this, and the focus is on the learner—that’s the main focus of the commission in terms of how the Bill is structured. That’s vital, I think. The engagement code and the learner protection code, those two elements are very important in terms of giving a voice on the one hand, but also providing safety and security for the learner in circumstances, maybe, if a course comes to an end or the learner wants to move between courses, and the detail that can be provided in those codes can provide a lot of support and security for learners in that context. We’ve looked at what's happening over the border and the code that we have here is much more broad ranging than that. I also think that the representation on the board of the commission is important in terms of the learner voice. That’s at the core of the new system. But the Bill has been introduced and there will be an extended period now of scrutiny and further conversations with stakeholders, and I’m very happy to hear more if learners and their representatives have ideas about how we can strengthen the approaches that the Member raised today.

I agree entirely on the subject of academic freedom. That’s on the face of the Bill as a requirement. There are also restrictions on what the Government can do in terms of requirements of the commission, that have at their core the idea of academic freedom as well. So, there’s more than one example in the Bill where that is on the face of the Bill.

The Member asked about how the Bill will expand the freedom of institutions to co-operate, which is a different version of academic freedom. I think that the Bill allows that at its core. That is, at present we have a funding system that relies on boundaries. That is, higher education is funded by the Government—further education by the Government and higher education by HEFCW, so that creates inconsistencies in the system, which isn’t strategic and doesn’t allow those links and that co-operation and collaboration that I know the Member wants to see. So, in moving away from that to have a transparent funding system that is based on a strategy, I think that’s going to allow our institutions to collaborate in a variety of creative ways.

The Member raised an important point about higher education corporations. And we thought, as we designed this part of the Bill, how to proceed with this question—to be honest, there was a discussion about the best way to go on this. Ultimately, we stuck to what’s already in the law. There are minor technical changes stemming from the fact that there's a commission, that there's a new body, but the substance of this hasn’t changed. The reason for that is that we need some kind of backstop under some circumstances—it's in some sort of emergency scenario that that might arise, of course. But there is a risk that, if the powers don’t exist, the institution would not be in a position to ask the Government to intervene, but also that we would need a parliamentary Act in order to change the situation. So, it’s just a practical matter. But, again, I’m happy to hear if people think that that needs to be strengthened, the ways of ensuring that. Public law, of course, applies here, so there would be significant restrictions that would arise in that context anyway. But, as I said, I’d be happy to hear further suggestions.

In terms of the Welsh language, the point that the Member makes is vital. It’s a discussion that I’ve had with CollegesWales, higher education colleges and our universities, and I think this is an important opportunity to ensure a contribution from the sector towards the aim that we all share. There's a different relationship that people have with the Welsh language after they leave school, I think. The dynamics may be a little different, so I think we have an opportunity here, and in a variety of ways I think that the Bill does make a contribution towards that. On the face of the Bill, it is a duty that the commission drives demand for post-16 education through the medium of Welsh, but I think there are a variety of ways that that can happen. The explanatory memorandum, quite a part of that is given over to explaining what kinds of things the commission could do, but I'd be happy to discuss that in more detail with the committee, for example, if that's of interest because I think that there's a lot that we can do in that context. 

In terms of qualifications, Qualifications Wales is looking at what we can do differently in terms of vocational qualifications, for example, through the medium of Welsh. There is a great deficit in that context. Some have already been created that are 'made in Wales' as it were, but there is further work that we have to do on that, I think, with Qualifications Wales.