2. Business Statement and Announcement

– in the Senedd at 2:34 pm on 9 November 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:34, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

The next item, therefore, is the business statement and announcement, and I call on the Trefnydd to make that statement. Lesley Griffiths.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's business. Draft business for the next three weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically. 

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative

Minister, can I call for a statement from the Minister for Health and Social Services on the use of face coverings in churches? I was at the Principality Stadium over the weekend, along with over 70,000 other people, and I was able to sing 'Bread of Heaven' without a face covering in sight. Why is it that churches can still not sing hymns, and sing 'Bread of Heaven', unless they have a face covering worn at the same time? It seems ridiculous to me that there is such a significant inconsistency. And I would like the Welsh Government to reconsider their position on this, to give those people who attend churches and other places of worship around the country the opportunity to be able to sing freely, without the need for face coverings to be worn.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:35, 9 November 2021

Well, obviously, the Welsh Government continually monitor and look at all of the mitigating circumstances we've brought in to prevent the further spread of COVID-19. We do, obviously, have a debate this afternoon also.

Photo of Delyth Jewell Delyth Jewell Plaid Cymru 2:36, 9 November 2021

I'd like an update from the Welsh Government, please, about next steps relating to the 327 high-risk coal tips in Wales. The Government, and I, had hoped that money for this would be forthcoming from the UK budget last month, but Wales was once again let down by Westminster. Trefnydd, the finance Minister has said that the UK Government has a legal and a moral responsibility to make the tips safe. Now, the moral obligation I think is clear—roughly £200 billion-worth of coal was extracted from Wales, and was not ever reinvested into the communities. It beggars belief that the Treasury now claims Welsh taxpayers should foot that bill for clearing up the mess and the danger, when they took the lion's share of the profits of coal. So, I'd like a statement, please, to explain more about the Welsh Government's analysis of the legal obligation the UK Government has to clear the tips, and what can be done to ensure they hold true to that obligation, but what the plan B is if Westminster continues to shirk responsibility. And finally, Trefnydd, there has been a recent suggestion of implementing an early-warning system for when tips start to move. I think that that merits further discussion on the floor of the Chamber, especially whether this will be in addition to or instead of safety work. So, I'd welcome a further statement from the Government about this issue, please.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:37, 9 November 2021

Thank you very much. Delyth Jewell raises a very important point, and we were all incredibly disappointed that further funding wasn't announced in the UK Government's comprehensive spending review last week, as you said yourself. The coal tips predate devolution in 1999, and I'm very surprised—and I've certainly had dealings with the UK Government in the previous term of Government around this issue. You'll be aware that the coal tip safety technology trials programme is under way to explore the instrumentation and the monitoring technology and techniques that are available for us with potential warning functions. And I think we really need to understand the condition indicators and triggering events in relation to coal tip safety. You'll also probably be aware that the Law Commission undertook a significant piece of work for the Welsh Government, and the Minister with responsibility now is looking at that and will update Members at the most appropriate time.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 2:38, 9 November 2021

Could I ask for a debate on environment legislation in Government time, Minister? The United Kingdom Government amended the Environment Bill yesterday to include sewerage undertakers whose area is wholly or mainly in England. Now, this clearly makes policy for England, but it doesn't make policy for Wales. And, with all the chaos that's been going on in Westminster over the last few weeks, I think there's a real sense of dislocation—what is the policy for discharges, what is the law, where does the law stand at the moment for Wales in all of this? We've seen a number of legislative consent motions seeking our approval for powers to be enacted in Westminster, without scrutiny in this place, but I think we need a level of coherence in this debate, and a coherence in the legislation that underpins environmental regulation, so that we here can debate these matters, and people in Wales can understand them.

I'd also like to ask for a statement on the ability of the general public to access this building. I understand there was an event taking place here at lunchtime, but this building is now closed as a consequence of a proposed demonstration outside. Now, in a democracy, people have the right to demonstrate; no matter how uncomfortable that may be for Members in here, the public have an absolute right to come here, to witness our debates, and to hold us all to account. It is unacceptable in a democracy, except in very, very narrow circumstances, that this building be closed to the people we seek to represent. I believe that, notwithstanding the public health issues that we have to deal with at the moment—and I accept that—on all other occasions, this place has to be open to the general public, and the general public have an absolute right to come here and watch our debates and watch our votes and how we represent those people.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:40, 9 November 2021

Thank you. In relation to your request regarding the environment Bill—and, as you say, we've had a number of LCMs that have been debated in this Chamber—the Minister is considering what steps we need to take. You'll be aware of our programme for government commitments focusing on improving our inland waters particularly, and we're working very closely with water companies around discharges, particularly from combined storm overflows—that work has been undertaken for several years now.

In relation to your second point, the Llywydd has heard your comments. Obviously, this was discussed in Business Committee this morning; there have been closures, as you say, of the Senedd, around public health issues in relation to COVID-19, but I'm sure that the Llywydd, if she feels that there is any need for any further information, will write to you to update you.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:41, 9 November 2021

I'm sorely tempted to respond myself at that point. I'm sure that I shouldn't, but just to reassure the Member and any other Members that no decision on the closure of this building is taken in order to make life more comfortable for Members and to lessen our accountability to the citizens of Wales. I take professional security and safety advice in these matters in order to keep Members, members of the public and staff safe, and that's the decision I've taken for today. But, as always, the views of Members are influential on my thinking, as is the professional advice that I receive. So, I'm grateful that the matter has been raised, believe it or not, in order to make sure that people are aware that it's not for the comfort of Members here, but is for the security of everybody who is outside or inside this building. And all our proceedings are available to be witnessed by Members virtually, of course, and the decisions we will take and the words that we will speak later on this afternoon, they will all be accountable to the people of Wales.

Peter Fox.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative 2:42, 9 November 2021

Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, could I please request a statement by the Minister for Climate Change for an update on what action the Welsh Government is taking on the issue of unsafe cladding on high-rise buildings? Recently, some constituents who own properties in the Celestia complex have contacted me about their concerns over a lack of direct support for leaseholders. I understand that this is a complex issue, but it's important that all those affected have certainty and clarity. I recognise that the Government has set up phase 1 of the Welsh buildings safety fund, and I think that Members would be interested in knowing more about what impact this fund has had so far. Now, as I understand it, details about phase 2 of the fund were meant to be announced this autumn, but nothing has been published yet. It is important that details about the next stage of support for those affected are announced as soon as possible. Finally, the written statement published by the Government in July 2021 stated that it was considering introducing 

'a buyout scheme to support leaseholders who are impacted by building safety and would prefer to sell their property.'

I think many residents would appreciate an update as to whether such a scheme will be introduced here in Wales. Thank you.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:43, 9 November 2021

Well, I'm sure that the Member appreciates that this is a very complex area and this work is ongoing and the Minister will update Members before Christmas.

Photo of Rhys ab Owen Rhys ab Owen Plaid Cymru 2:44, 9 November 2021

Trefnydd, many in this Siambr will know that this Senedd has been built on a dry dock, and it's probably right to say that this building wouldn't be here now if it wasn't for the port of Cardiff and the coal of the Valleys. Therefore, it's apt for me to ask for a statement today from the Welsh Government about their ports and maritime strategy. As during the industrial revolution, our port has a key role to play during the green revolution. Now, my colleagues Luke Fletcher, Heledd Fychan and I went to visit Cardiff port today; we had a tour, we had a virtual tour, and spoke to the management there. I encourage any Member to go and visit the port, which is literally just around the corner from us. Management there were keen to highlight to us the role that the port can play towards a greener and a decarbonised Wales. So, can we have a statement about your strategy for ports?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:45, 9 November 2021

Thank you. I would certainly encourage Members to undertake the visit that you just referred to. I will ask the Minister what work is ongoing in relation to our ports and maritime strategy and ask for an update.

Photo of Jenny Rathbone Jenny Rathbone Labour

Last Sunday, I attended a remembrance service at the Armenian monument in Cathays Park, which was the first monument in memory of the holocaust suffered by the Armenian community in 1915. Llywydd, I’m sure you will recall that this institution and the Welsh Government at the time were the first to recognise the genocide of the Armenians during the first world war, and the first to put up a monument to the Armenian slaughter, which was unveiled by your predecessor, Dafydd Elis-Thomas. So, I hope we will all continue to remember the Armenian genocide, both this weekend and when we come to mark Holocaust Memorial Day at the end of January.

Trefnydd, in light of the earlier comments of the First Minister about the disturbing levels of corruption this UK Government is quickly becoming synonymous with, I’d like to request a statement from the Welsh Government about the damage done to Welsh citizens as a result of the awarding of the contract for PCR testing to Immensa Health Clinic in Wolverhampton just weeks after it was incorporated. An initial grant of £119 million last year and a further £50 million this August has been given to a company that is not capable of providing accurate PCR tests. Forty-three thousand PCR tests were declared negative when in fact they were positive in September and the beginning of October alone. So, in this statement, may we be told how many of the false-negative tests affected people living in Wales? And what steps is the Welsh Government taking to seek compensation for the false-negative tests, which we know, from recent remarks from the director of public health, have contributed to the spread of COVID in south-east Wales?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:47, 9 November 2021

Thank you. It was certainly very concerning that, as you say, there were 43,000 false-negative COVID tests. I should say the UK Health Security Agency have confirmed that people from Wales who did have tests analysed at that private laboratory in England were all contacted between 15 and 17 October. This is an ongoing piece of work. We are working with the UK HSA to look at the reviews. We’re working with Public Health Wales as well, and supporting the technical advisory group to asses the potential impact of those incidents on our case rates in epidemiology. The Minister will need to await the results of those investigations and reviews before coming forward with a statement.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative 2:48, 9 November 2021

Minister, recent figures demonstrate our emergency services are facing a crisis, with ambulance response time reaching life-endangering levels in Wales. This is true not just for red calls. In September, only 52 per cent of red calls reached their patient within eight minutes, but, for amber calls, 5,228 patients had to wait over three hours and, of these, for 1,608 the ambulances took over five hours. Amber calls can include strokes as well as fractures. Recently, the Minister called a climate emergency, but what is clear now is that the life chances of Welsh patients are facing a greater immediate threat—an ambulance emergency. Will the Minister set aside time for a debate on this crisis for the health Minister to address this issue? Thank you.  

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:49, 9 November 2021

We know that excessive waits for an ambulance response are not acceptable, and you will have heard the First Minister answer questions during First Minister's questions around our ambulance waiting times. The Welsh ambulance service, like all our NHS services, not just in Wales but right across the UK, is working very hard to respond to the ongoing and significant challenges that the global pandemic has presented to us. We heard the First Minister saying that, obviously, when ambulances are responding to calls now, invariably, they have to put PPE on, and this is taking much longer, unfortunately, and also the cleaning of the ambulances. I don't think we need a specific debate on ambulance times at the moment, but the health Minister is in the Chamber most weeks, where she can answer specific questions.

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru 2:50, 9 November 2021

Trefnydd, I'd like to raise the plight of residents and businesses in the wider Brynmawr area who have been affected by the ongoing work on the Heads of the Valleys road. This has been a long-running saga for the local people because works have dragged on and on. What was promised to be a three-months closure of the slip road turned into 15 months. I'm pleased that, as of Monday, the slip road has now opened between 6 a.m and 8 p.m, but there's still work to do on this section of the road, which is down to one lane currently. It's been said by contractors, for what that's worth, that the section will be completed some time this autumn, which officially ends less than a week before Christmas.

Local residents and businesses have suffered long enough already. Many local traders are on the brink. Can the matter of business support be explored? I submitted written questions on the matter, but the answers that came back were not substantial. One local resident told me this week, 'We've been patient enough'. As the crucial Christmas period approaches, can resources also be directed to this section of the road, to ensure that works are completed ahead of the 20 December deadline, which, if it runs to that date, will be no good for the town centre, which has already suffered enough and is looking to recover in the run-up to Christmas? Diolch.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:51, 9 November 2021

I don't have any information to hand around the road that the Member refers to. I'm very pleased that the slip road has opened, and I will certainly ask—I assume it's the Deputy Minister for Climate Change who answered you—him to revisit your written questions to see if there is any further information that can be given and reassurance to your constituents.

(Translated)

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 2:52, 9 November 2021

I seek your wise counsel on how we can get a very specific matter raised here in the Siambr. It could be through a debate on community land ownership, or, indeed, the role of the Crown Estate, or something else that could help resolve a long-standing issue in the gorgeous Garw valley. We've got a former colliery rail line that is now a much-loved but somewhat neglected community footpath and cycle path, which has an active interest from a heritage rail company, a separate local heritage and history society, and environmental groups, and is part of the national cycle network, so Sustrans has an interest too, yet it has contested ownership, and leasehold and maintenance responsibility and public liability accountability falling between various stakeholders and the local authority, and the former and now defunct groundwork organisation, and—wait for it—Crown Estates too. So, as of this moment, this vital community wildlife and recreation corridor risks falling into disrepair because no-one is able to step up and take responsibility for it. So, after years of frustration for all involved, I'm pulling together a meeting of all the stakeholders to see if we can agree a way forward, but a debate on this would be helpful indeed. So, what would the Trefnydd advise if I wanted to seek to air this matter on the floor of the Senedd to encourage a resolution to this long-running saga?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:53, 9 November 2021

Possibly a short debate; I've always found if you've got a specific issue like that, it's quite a useful way forward. I mean, it's clearly a complicated issue that you've just set out, so I think there are obviously some contested land ownership issues. I think it's very important in the first place to try and get a better understanding of those issues, so that will inform the options available. You could write to the Minister, or raise a question during their question time, but I think we need to look at the legal issues as well, and that might then open up more opportunities to look at what powers are available, including compulsory purchase, for instance. So, I would certainly suggest that the Member does that in the first instance.

Photo of Gareth Davies Gareth Davies Conservative 2:54, 9 November 2021

Good afternoon, Trefnydd. I would like to call for a statement from the Minister for health regarding fair pay for NHS staff, as I've been contacted by a number of constituents, given that Ysbyty Glan Clwyd is a major employer in the Vale of Clwyd, as is Wrexham Maelor Hospital in your own constituency. And they've raised concerns about the announced 3 per cent pay increase for NHS staff and the fact that they've yet to receive the increase. It appears that many staff on band 2 haven't received the backdated pay uplift, and they're staff who provide vital services such as microbiology, phlebotomy and a whole range of essential diagnostics. This is affecting morale in some of the lowest paid NHS workers and essential workers, who are just as important as our doctors and nurses. And, like many parts of our NHS, these services are understaffed and they've been under immense pressure and strain throughout the pandemic. Staff have had to take extra workloads on during the past 18 months to ensure our NHS continues to operate. So, Trefnydd, will you ask the Minister for health to come to this Chamber and inform my constituents when they will be able to see the promised uplift in their pay? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:55, 9 November 2021

Thank you. Well, you'll be aware the Minister for Health and Social Services did issue a written statement to show her commitment to following the recommendations from the independent NHS pay review body in relation to the 3 per cent pay rise. I think it's very important that we never miss an opportunity to say how much we value the work and appreciate everything our NHS Wales staff have done, particularly over the very difficult 18 months. I know that negotiations are ongoing. I will certainly ask the Minister if there is any further information to update us, but I know her officials are working very closely with NHS Wales to ensure all staff receive that pay rise as soon as possible.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 2:56, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

And lastly, Cefin Campbell.

Photo of Cefin Campbell Cefin Campbell Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. Trefnydd, could I ask you for an oral statement on the latest situation in terms of the impact of the NRW advice on rivers in special areas of conservation that are sensitive to phosphates? This, of course, is having a major impact across the Mid and West Wales region. I'm sure that we all understand the need for clean rivers and unpolluted rivers, but it's clear to me that these guidelines are going to have a major impact on the ability of local authorities and you as a Government—I'll take off my mask so you can hear me better—to achieve a number of very important plans, such as building affordable homes, economic development schemes, the mid Wales deal and so forth. Now, I understand that you have established a national working group to bring the major agencies together to plan a way ahead. Could we have a statement from you on the work of this working group that would allow us, as Members in the Chamber, to discuss these issues? Thank you very much.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:58, 9 November 2021

Thank you. Well, this issue actually falls within the portfolio of the Minister for Climate Change, not mine, and I know she has been considering the report from NRW. The Minister has oral questions tomorrow, so it might be most appropriate if you raise it with her then.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour

(Translated)

I thank the Trefnydd.