8. Debate: Remembering and supporting our Armed Forces community in Wales

– in the Senedd on 9 November 2021.

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(Translated)

The following amendment has been selected: amendment 1 in the name of Siân Gwenllian.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 6:27, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

We'll now move on to item 8 on our agenda, a debate on remembering and supporting our armed forces community in Wales. I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Partnership to move the motion, Hannah Blythyn.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7819 Lesley Griffiths, Siân Gwenllian, Darren Millar, Jane Dodds

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Remembers and recognises the contribution of all those who have served and continue to serve in our Armed Forces, particularly those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

2. Welcomes and pays tribute to the support that third sector organisations provide to our Armed Forces community in Wales, especially the Royal British Legion, which is in its 100th anniversary year.

3. Expresses the upmost gratitude for the efforts of the Armed Forces throughout the COVID-19 pandemic and the support they continue to provide in a number of settings, including for the Welsh Ambulance Service.

4. Notes the Welsh Government’s commitment to honouring the Armed Forces Covenant through the provision of bespoke services and support for our Armed Forces community and ongoing collaboration and engagement with stakeholders.

(Translated)

Motion moved.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 6:27, 9 November 2021

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. The remembrance period offers an opportunity for us all to remember, reflect and recognise the contribution of those who have served and those who continue to serve. It's a time to pause and to collectively pay tribute to the all too many who have made the ultimate sacrifice, and to reaffirm our support for veterans and communities across our country. It's a privilege to lead the Welsh Government's work in supporting our veterans and armed forces community, and it's a privilege to be able to lead this Government debate today, ahead of Armistice Day on Thursday and Remembrance Sunday.

Both days serve as a poignant reminder of those who have served and fought through conflicts and campaigns and served in peace-keeping missions throughout our long history—men and women from across the UK and Commonwealth countries, whose bravery and sacrifice will never be forgotten. Earlier today, I had the pleasure of supporting the Royal British Legion's Cardiff Poppy Day, where I joined with Roy Noble and the military band to meet volunteers who are marking 100 years of the poppy appeal. So, this year, the Royal British Legion celebrates its hundredth birthday, and that's a century of providing support and services for our armed forces community.

Indeed, this year has seen a number of significant and special anniversaries remembered. We commemorated the Royal Air Force's eighty-first anniversary of the battle of Britain, albeit delayed for a year from the eightieth anniversary commemorations because of the coronavirus pandemic. In September, I attended a service in Westminster Abbey to honour the remarkable effort and the eventual victory of the RAF during the battle of Britain in 1940. And I took part in the opening of the Wales and the battle of Britain exhibition in Cardiff, to recognise not just the contribution of those who became known as 'the few', but the role that communities across the country played in supporting the effort and coming together. Five hundred and forty-four RAF pilots and air crew lost their lives in the battle of Britain, including 67 Welshmen, a number of whom won gallantry awards for bravery. They included pilot Flying Officer Harold Bird-Wilson and Sergeant Glyn Griffiths, flying Hurricanes with 17 Squadron. Their sacrifice will not be forgotten.

In 2021, we have also paid tribute to the work of armed forces in more recent operations, notably the thirtieth anniversary of the Gulf War. Over 53,000 members of the UK armed forces were deployed during the conflict, with 47 British personnel losing their lives and many more wounded. We pay tribute to their bravery and sacrifice. And many of you will remember, or have seen since the pictures from Bluff Cove during the Falklands war of 1982. British forces, including those from Wales, lost their lives or were severely injured during the sinking of the RFA Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram and through the ensuing campaign. Preparations are under way across Wales to mark next year's fortieth anniversary.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 6:30, 9 November 2021

Reflecting on more recent conflicts, particularly with recent events in Afghanistan, I think it is right and appropriate that we take a moment today to recognise all those men and women who served in Afghanistan. And I would also like to place on record my thanks to all those who provided much-needed assistance—those people who bravely worked alongside our forces and are now in the process of relocating here from Afghanistan. I think we all agree that we owe them a warm Welsh welcome for what they did. 

We are committed to supporting our military community and are proud of the serving personnel and the positive impact our armed forces and their families bring to communities. So, we absolutely continue to impress on the UK Government the importance of the armed forces maintaining a presence and footprint in Wales that is commensurate to the contribution that Wales makes to the armed forces, including the numbers of men and women from Wales who serve in our armed forces.

I'd like to take this opportunity to place on record our gratitude to the men and women of our armed services who continue to help our nation overcome the unprecedented challenges associated with the COVID-19 pandemic. They have stepped up and provided vital support from the vaccine roll-out to assisting the Welsh ambulance service trust, delivering PPE and even food distribution. I'm sure that Members join me today in thanking them for everything that they have done.

Remembrance serves as an opportunity to remember the veterans of yesterday, but to also reaffirm our support for the veterans of today and to redouble our efforts for the veterans of tomorrow. In June, I launched the Welsh Government's third armed forces covenant annual report, capturing our ongoing commitment to the armed forces community. The report underlines what can be achieved when we work collaboratively across all sectors. And we've provided additional funding for Veterans' NHS Wales, bringing their funding to £920,000 per year, which is a 35 per cent increase to support veterans requiring help with mental health issues. Support can also be found through our 24/7 CALL mental health helpline—support we are committed to continuing.

The Welsh Government introduced the Great Place to Work for Veterans initiative in November 2020 to provide ex-service personnel with the option of joining the civil service. Through our employment action group, we are backing a service leavers and veterans employment event being held later this month, which will give employers the opportunity to learn about the transferrable skills of veterans, and, for veterans, the opportunity to hopefully gain future employment.

We've also worked in partnership with colleagues in the Scottish Government and Business in the Community to launch our 'Capitalising on Military Family Talent' document, which sets out available employer support for spouses and partners of serving personnel. And we have worked closely with the Ministry of Defence to develop a new family strategy for serving personnel, which will provide the support and information needed, whether it's advice on childcare support or support for children in education. Closer to home, we've invested £250,000 per year in Supporting Service Children in Education—SSCE Cymru—to provide advice and support for service children in Wales. Following a successful bid to the covenant fund for SSCE, I've appointed four service children regional schools liaison officers and they're actively engaging with and supporting schools to understand the needs of service children.

We continue to invest £275,000 each year in our armed forces liaison officers. They're our valued eyes and ears on the ground, and every time I have meetings with representatives from Governments elsewhere in the UK, they very much recognise the role and the value of those AFLOs. They continue to make good progress on the delivery of services for the armed forces community, including things like delivering mental health first aid courses to the armed forces community and support organisations, training for local authority staff, police forces, health boards and bespoke sessions for members of staff in the Department for Work and Pensions to raise awareness of the needs of veterans and their families, alongside working with military charities to set up veterans' hubs in local authorities to combat loneliness and provide support and advice.

During Armed Forces Week, we launched our first Wales resettlement guide. This was developed in collaboration with the Career Transition Partnership and the 160th (Welsh) Brigade and highlights the support available for serving personnel and their families returning to civilian life in Wales. These achievements, along with many others, can be credited to our collaborative approach. At ministerial level we meet biannually with our armed forces experts group, and later this year our three armed forces chiefs in Wales will, at the invitation of the First Minister, be invited to attend a meeting of the Cabinet where we can further strengthen our established and positive working relationships.

In closing, Dirprwy Lywydd, I want to briefly return to the focus of today’s remembrance debate. The motion asks us to honour the service and sacrifice of past and present serving personnel. It also provides for the opportunity to thank our current armed forces for their continued and valuable support in response to the COVID-19 pandemic, and to pay tribute to the work of the Royal British Legion as it celebrates its centenary year. It reaffirms our support for the armed forces community. And, of course, we, each and every one of us, should strive for a peaceful resolution to conflict and for an end to all wars. We remember all those who've lost their lives in wars and conflicts, and those who've suffered both mental and physical injury. We say a heartfelt 'thank you' as we pay tribute to the bravery and sacrifice of our armed forces, our veterans and their families.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 6:36, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

We will remember them. 

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour

(Translated)

I have selected the amendment to the motion. I call on Heledd Fychan to move the amendment tabled in the name of Siân Gwenllian.

(Translated)

Amendment 1—Siân Gwenllian

Add as new points at end of motion:

Supports the need to strive for peaceful resolutions to all conflicts and for an end to war.

Remembers all those who have lost their lives in wars and conflicts, including civilian casualties.

(Translated)

Amendment 1 moved.

Photo of Heledd Fychan Heledd Fychan Plaid Cymru 6:36, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. I would like to start by paying tribute to all of those who have lost their lives in wars. There is a fundamental difference between celebrating war and noting the sacrifice of individuals, and as we remember all of those we have lost in war and conflict this week, it's also important to remember the significance of their sacrifice. In remembering them, we must also demand progress on peace work, and I kindly ask you for your cross-party support for our amendment, which seeks support regarding the need to strive for peaceful resolutions to all conflicts. Last year, we welcomed the founding of the Wales peace academy, and we are proud to see its work over the past year, such as holding a ceremony for the young peacemakers awards, where we celebrated young people's contributions to peace. This means that the next generation is being supported in shaping a peaceful future.

Over the past few decades, Wales has had an outstanding civic record in terms of promoting international peace and solidarity. This was seen most recently when Urdd Gobaith Cymru welcomed the families of Afghan refugees who needed accommodation urgently. There have been countless other examples over the years, such as the message of peace and goodwill from the young people of Wales, which will celebrate its centenary next year; the peace appeal made in 1923 and 1924, when 40 per cent of Welsh women signed a petition calling on women in America to lobby the American President to join the League of Nations; and the disarmament campaigns that have been undertaken for 40 years by CND Cymru and organisations such as the Welsh anti-apartheid movement.

In an area that has, for decades, been mostly nongovernmental, I would like to think that we continue to make progress on peace work in having an international relations strategy in 2019. Plaid Cymru will always be ready to work with the academy to ensure that peace is at the heart of the strategies and policies of the Welsh Government, and that Wales makes a contribution to research and practice that is recognised globally. What we've achieved since the end of the world wars reminds us that a minute's silence is a small tribute to those who have lost their lives in war. But a minute is not enough. We must also remember them in our work and in our actions throughout the year, so that their sacrifice is not in vain.

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative 6:39, 9 November 2021

In this centenary year of the Royal British Legion, it is pertinent that our cross-party motion today proposes that this Senedd remembers and recognises the contribution of all those who have served and continue to serve in our armed forces, particularly those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

As our motion also states, we must welcome and pay tribute to the support that third sector organisations provide to our armed forces community in Wales, which include the Change Step peer mentoring service, delivered by veterans for veterans, led by CAIS, now part of Adferiad Recovery; Woody’s Lodge, providing a communications and social hub for the ex-forces community in Wales; Alabaré and First Choice Housing Association’s homes for veterans; the armed forces charity SSAFA; and, of course, the Royal British Legion. I apologise to any others I've not had time to mention.

Over 6 million men served in the first world war, and of those who came back, 1.75 million were disabled. On 15 May 1921, the British legion was formed by Field Marshal Earl Haig and Bombardier Tom Lister, bringing together four national organisations of ex-servicemen. The women's section quickly followed. In September 1921, the legion adopted the poppy as a symbol of remembrance, and its poppy factory opened the following year. Tomorrow, I'm sponsoring the Royal British Legion's centenary drop-in reception, and Members are urged to attend.

Ahead of May's Senedd's elections, the legion manifesto included calls on the next Welsh Government—this Welsh Government—to work with the Ministry of Defence to provide resettlement centre services in Wales, ensure that injured veterans can consistently access chronic pain treatment, commit to permanently fund the Supporting Service Children in Education Wales fund, expand and accelerate roll-out of guaranteed interviews for armed forces service leavers, reservists and spouses for public sector jobs in Wales, extend housing priority need post military service, ensure divorced or separated spouses and partners of service personnel in Wales can access housing support, and deliver better support to veterans with substance misuse issues.

It's 16 years since I first raised the need for traumatised ex-forces personnel to access mental health care and receive priority treatment here. Regrettably, my repeated pleas to sustain residential respite and treatment in Wales for those with acute needs fell on deaf ears. The Welsh Government did eventually launch Veterans' NHS Wales, providing veterans living in Wales with non-residential assessment and psychological treatment for mental health problems, including PTSD. However, working with the sector, I repeatedly called for its funding to be reviewed over the following years. As I said here remotely last November:

'It's imperative that the hard work of Veterans' NHS Wales both continues and continues to expand'— and that—

'Veterans' NHS Wales's business case for increased funding now is inarguable'.

I therefore welcome the increased funding since announced. They tell me that they're grateful for this increase this year to keep the staff employed that Help for Heroes funded for three years. They add, however, that there were several other funding requests in their business case that the Welsh Government failed to fund, including NHS-employed peer mentors and increased psychiatrist sessions, currently only one day per month. Only yesterday, BBC Wales reported veterans in Wales with PTSD calling for more support.

I led a short debate here in January 2008 supporting the legion's Honour the Covenant campaign, concluding that this must be fought until it is won. And I welcomed that it's been written into legislation 10 years ago. However, I continue to receive casework where public bodies are not honouring this. In its independent review of the covenant to mark its first decade, the legion states that although it doesn't require 'fundamental change' for the next decade, it does require

'renewed vigour in communication and a determination to ensure that it meets the needs of all those in the Armed Forces community who need it.'

I first led a debate here calling on the Welsh Government to establish an armed forces commissioner seven years ago. When I raised this again three years ago, the Welsh Government told me this would divert resources from practical services and support. I therefore welcome the announcement in the UK autumn budget of the establishment of a veterans commissioner for Wales, who will work to improve the lives—

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 6:44, 9 November 2021

Mark, can you conclude now, please?

Photo of Mark Isherwood Mark Isherwood Conservative

—and opportunities of the Welsh veterans community, recognising their contribution to UK armed forces.

To conclude, I once again express gratitude for the significant contribution made by the armed forces to the COVID-19 response in Wales, emphasise the need to strive for peaceful resolution to all conflicts and remember all those, military and civilian, who have lost their lives in war. 

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour

It's been a somewhat fractious afternoon, and I think it's right and proper that we conclude our deliberations this afternoon by coming together and remembering that there's much more that unites us, even Darren, than divides us. I'd like to start my contribution to this debate by saying a word about Darren's commitment to the cross-party group on the armed forces, and I know it's something that is appreciated by the veteran and armed forces community across Wales, and I'd certainly like to pay tribute to you, Darren, for the work that you do in leading that group. Also, the Welsh Government has, over the years, sought and worked to ensure that the support that is available from the Welsh Government is provided both to veterans and to the serving armed forces community and meets all the obligations of the covenant, but seems to go further as well.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 6:45, 9 November 2021

In contributing this afternoon, I've been reflecting on the centenary of the Royal British Legion. It was, of course, established in the shadow of the great war, and many of the things that we see today were influenced by that conflict. We don't celebrate conflict, and we don't celebrate war, we take a moment to bow our heads in silence, to remember those people who were lost, who sacrificed for our freedoms and to protect our society and our communities. Nobody there takes any pleasure in war and warfare, but we recognise the importance of their sacrifice, and we bow our heads in silence, and that silence represents the memory of that conflict. In the same way, when those of us who have visited those cemeteries across the western front and in Normandy and elsewhere—you will see those graves, each one of them equal, not according to rank, not according to social standing, but together in death in equality, again, as a consequence of that sacrifice. The cenotaphs and the memorials that we see in every town, every community, every village, every city of this land, again remember the sacrifice of those men and women in, largely, the first and second world wars, but also in subsequent conflicts. And when I stand again with the British legion and with others in Abertillery on Sunday morning, we will bow our heads in memory of the people from our communities that were lost in fighting for our livelihoods and our lives and our country.

It's important that we honour that memory, but it is also important that today we honour that memory not simply on one day or two days of the year, but on 365 days of the year by ensuring that we don't let people down, that we do have the services available to veterans, that we do provide services for the serving community, that we're able to ensure that whether it's the physical health or mental health needs, they are met, and that we continue to provide support for the armed forces in this country. The First Minister mentioned during questions earlier this afternoon that Wales has traditionally and still does contribute a greater number of people to serve in the armed forces than our population. It is important that we're able to continue to support those who are serving today, to ensure that they have not only the equipment that they need, but we support the industrial base that maintains our freedoms, that we support the industrial base that ensures that our armed forces have everything they need to keep them safe and to protect them when they are fighting for us, and we have an absolute responsibility to do that, but also to ensure that we can provide the bases, the locations, facilities for the armed forces here in Wales.

Some of us joined the army in operation Cambrian patrol earlier this autumn, and we saw again the sacrifices that people make and what is expected of servicepeople today. It is important that we're able to continue to do that.

So, in conclusion, Deputy Presiding Officer, I hope that we will join together in this Chamber and beyond in bowing our heads this weekend and this week in memory of all those who have gone before us. But, next Monday, we roll up our sleeves to continue the work to support those people who are with us today who have served and those who are continuing to serve. 

Photo of Peredur Owen Griffiths Peredur Owen Griffiths Plaid Cymru 6:50, 9 November 2021

This time of year is a chance for many to pause and consider those affected by armed conflict around the world. As someone who had a grandfather who served and remembers him talking about his experiences, I'm familiar with the impact the armed forces can have on your life, good and bad. We know from research conducted by the Plaid Cymru team in Westminster that ex-armed forces personnel often end up sleeping rough on the streets, in prison or dealing with substance misuse. Allied to this research was a call by our party for much improved aftercare for veterans, something that is particularly important in Wales given the disproportionately high numbers of armed service personnel, or former armed service personnel, from this country. 

The armed forces covenant, which was enshrined in law 10 years ago, was a response to the lack of fair play when it comes to the treatment of veterans. Things have got better since the introduction of this legislation, but there is room for improvement. For example, the armed forces expert group, which advises on how public services can meet the needs of the armed forces community, has said there are several things that the Government in Wales could do to make things better. This includes a national plan to implement changes from the Armed Forces Act 2006, a commitment to permanently fund the supporting service children in education Wales fund and extending housing priority to cover five years after leaving military service. Having said that, praise should be given when it's due, and Plaid Cymru welcomes the recent commitment in the autumn budget to establish the first veterans' commissioner for Wales. This will hopefully help to catch those who fall when they are forgotten about by those in Westminster who seem happy enough to send our men and women into conflict but less eager to help repair the damage this causes.

Third sector organisations carry out fantastic work, but the Westminster Government needs to step up and do more for all those who have served and require ongoing support. When this happens, we may see a significant drop in the number of ex-armed services personnel ending up homeless or with some form of addiction. It will also ease the burden on the charity sector, which has to do what any responsible Government should be doing in the first place. A Government's obligation to people who have served does not end when they leave the forces, and the sooner that is realised by those in Westminster, the better. This Remembrance Day, a lasting and fitting testament to all those who have served would be to greatly improve state support services that will keep veterans in mind all year round, not just on Remembrance Day. Diolch yn fawr.  

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 6:53, 9 November 2021

I want to first of all just thank the Deputy Minister and the Welsh Government for working on a cross-party basis and for bringing this debate forward today. This Thursday, of course, marks the hundred and third anniversary of the signing of the armistice that ended the first world war, a war that saw over 1 million British casualties, 40,000 of which were from Wales. And since the armistice was signed, nearly 0.5 million more British troops have made the ultimate sacrifice in wars against fascism, totalitarianism and foreign aggression. And this Remembrance Day, we don't just mark and remember those who gave their lives for the country 103 years ago, we also mark seven years since the end of the war in Afghanistan, 10 years since the end of the war in Iraq, 30 years since the end of the Gulf war, 39 years since the end of the Falklands war, 68 years since the end of the Korean war and, of course, 76 years since the end of world war two. These were wars and conflicts that saw thousands of British servicemen make the ultimate sacrifice, and it's during this and all future Remembrance Weeks that we must remember and honour them. 

It's also important that we note and celebrate the commitment of serving personnel across Wales at the moment, including reservists as well and veterans and their families, and the contribution that they make each and every day of the year, as has already been said by others. It is the commitment that our serving personnel make when they're deployed abroad or at sea for months without seeing their families, the commitment that reservists make to give up their free time to play a vital role in supporting the operations and defence capabilities here in the UK, and the commitment that veterans show when they re-enter civilian life and bring the valuable skills which they have acquired from the military with them. And it's because of that commitment that we as lawmakers and citizens must honour the armed forces covenant. That promise that we make as a nation that we will ensure that those who serve or have served in the armed forces—and their families—are treated fairly and will not face disadvantage. And as chair of the cross-party group on armed forces and cadets, I want to register my appreciation to the Deputy Minister and her predecessors and her officials for their continued commitment to honouring that covenant.

A great deal has been achieved in Wales over the years, including the establishment of Veterans' NHS Wales, the appointment of a Minister with responsibility for the armed forces, the commitment to the ongoing financial support for those very important armed forces liaison officers, the guaranteed interview scheme for veterans and of course, I could go on. They're all making a real difference to people across the country, but it's also true to say that there's still room for further improvement; there always is. And I would like to see more timely support for veterans who have mental health problems; more sustainable funding for those peer mentors that are incredibly important as part of the support programme, too.

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative

I note that you mention support for veterans. Would you join me in congratulating Barry John MBE of the VC Gallery in my constituency? He leads a team of volunteers helping veterans and the wider community dealing with mental health issues through art and crafts, which is a fantastic support in my rural community.

Photo of Darren Millar Darren Millar Conservative 6:57, 9 November 2021

I'd be absolutely delighted to extend my congratulations and thanks to Barry John for the work that he does, and for those other unsung heroes across Wales who do so much to support and help veterans across the country.

So, we still need further support for the children of serving personnel, and of course we need the reactivation of the Cymru'n Cofio programme to promote those important military anniversaries, for example the one coming up next year, the fortieth anniversary of the Falklands conflict, but there is without doubt—in spite of the need for improvement in at least those areas—a very real commitment from this Government, which you should be applauded for, regardless of whichever bench anybody sits on in this Chamber.

There's also been some very important and positive collaboration between the Welsh Government and the UK Government, and we've seen that inter-governmental work go from strength to strength, particularly during the coronavirus pandemic, which saw serving personnel assisting with driving ambulances, supporting test centres, delivering PPE for our hospitals, and helping of course with that world-beating vaccine roll-out that we were all so very proud of here in Wales. And I hope that that positive co-operation will continue with the appointment of the veterans commissioner for Wales, which the funding was announced for in the Chancellor's recent budget statement.

Just very briefly in respect of Plaid Cymru's amendment: we will of course be supporting that amendment. There's a moral imperative for everybody to strive for peaceful resolutions to every conflict that rears its head, and I know that our British armed forces help to do just that; they are peacekeeping in nations around the world right now. So, we will be supporting that amendment.

So, Dirprwy Lywydd, in conclusion, I just want to pay tribute to the entire Welsh armed forces community, including the current serving personnel, veterans, reservists, their families, and those groups and charities that play a vital role in supporting that community; especially the Royal British Legion, in this, their one hundredth year. We owe them all a debt of gratitude.

Photo of Huw Irranca-Davies Huw Irranca-Davies Labour 6:59, 9 November 2021

It is right that we as a Senedd show the respect and the recognition of the sacrifice that our armed forces personnel, men and women, have made over many, many years, and we will stand together in the coming days and on Remembrance Sunday to remember the sacrifices that have been made; those who have returned, who have been injured, physically or mentally, from their role in protecting our islands, but also protecting others in far-flung places of the world.

And I just want to say one thing about those who often gave the sacrifice in places around the world that are now forgotten: one of the greatest honours that was ever given to me was to be given an honorary membership of the National Malaya and Borneo Veterans Association in south Wales, a group that I've been close to for many, many, many years. That's one of the conflicts that is often overlooked, but, as we look back not simply to what was called the great war, or to the second world war and the sacrifices made there, we forget that, after those two conflicts, there was Palestine, there was Malaya, there was the attack on HMS Amethyst on the Yangtze river, there was Korea, there was Egypt, there was Kenya, there was Cyprus, there was Aden, the Arabian peninsula, Congo, Brunei, Borneo, there was Northern Ireland, with too many of us with recollections of that in recent history, Darfur, Rhodesia, the Falklands, the Gulf war, Iraq, Cambodia, the Balkans, Sierra Leone, Afghanistan, and of course Libya as well.

Not all of these were conflict situations. Some of these were, as has been remarked in this debate already, peacekeeping operations, including operations for the UN, where our servicemen and servicewomen were deployed to protect others right across the world. That is why it is right that we come together and we do remember and we pause and we reflect on the sacrifice that has been made by those who return, but also by those who will never return, the over 7,000—well over 7,000 individuals since the second world war—who will never come back, in recent conflicts and in forgotten conflicts as well, in distant places around the world. And disproportionately many of those will have come from Wales, disproportionately many will have come from working-class communities, so I will be supporting not simply the main motion today, but also the amendment as well, because whilst we do remember and we recognise with respect the sacrifice that people have made from our own communities, and right across these island nations, we also recognise that we need to focus on peace. That is ultimately what the aim must be. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd.

Photo of Altaf Hussain Altaf Hussain Conservative 7:02, 9 November 2021

Remembrance belongs to us all. It does so because we are all beneficiaries of what past generations secured on our behalf: freedom. The freedom we enjoy now would not have been possible without the sacrifice of those who let go of their freedom.

At a time when our society remains more fragmented and anxious than any of us could have thought and would want, remembrance is something we can share as members of society. British troops fought alongside soldiers from across the Commonwealth, including 1.5 million Indian soldiers, 40,000 of them Muslims from present Pakistan, and most people are still unaware that Muslims fought for Britain in world war one. This shared history should play a huge role in the integration of cultures that at present struggle to be reconciled. The Remember Together initiative brings people together to learn about the multi-ethnic, multifaith armies of world war one, and to understand what remembering our history can mean for identity and for belonging in our society today.

When we commemorate battles past, for courage, sacrifice and loss, we think of all those who answered the call to defend freedom from tyranny, people who, despite their differences, had one thing in common—their shared humanity. Human existence and survival are not just conditional on the individual and the community but the developing relationship between the individual and society, which provides the real source of enlightenment for both and helps humanity to thrive. As an individual you can't attain perfection unless you are part of the community, where so much is to be gained.

As a retired surgeon, I am reminded at this time of year of the contribution of our doctors and nurses in a time of war. The first world war was the first truly industrial conflict in human history, a conflict that, over four years, would leave over 750,000 British troops dead, with a further 1.6 million injured, the majority with orthopaedic injuries. Against this backdrop, the skills of the orthopaedic surgeon were brought to the fore. Millions died and millions more were left disabled. Faced with such carnage, the medical profession did, indeed, respond magnificently.

Two Welshmen were responsible for one of the most important advances, the Thomas splint, which is still used in war zones today. It was invented in the late nineteenth century by pioneering surgeon Hugh Owen Thomas of Liverpool, often described as the father of British orthopaedics, born in Anglesey to a family of bone setters. But it was his surgeon nephew Robert Jones, later Sir Robert, who as a major general inspector of orthopaedics in the military, was mainly responsible for rolling out its use on the battlefield in the first world war and became a father figure of British orthopaedic surgery. He had established a hospital in Oswestry before the war with Agnes Hunt. In the fullness of time, the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt Orthopaedic Hospital would become recognised as a centre of orthopaedic excellence.

In 1914, 80 per cent of soldiers with broken thigh bones died. The use of the Thomas splint meant that, by 1916, 80 per cent of soldiers suffering that injury survived. With hundreds of thousands of injured soldiers returning home, the first world war also led to a new emphasis on rehabilitation and continuing care. There were huge advances in prosthetic limb technology to meet the needs of hundreds of thousands of amputees. The system of healthcare was overwhelmed but new capacity was built. The first world war is remembered for so much—for liberty and freedom, for life without the risk of aggression. For me as a surgeon, it is also about what others did to treat and support those who fought and were injured. So, today I wanted to acknowledge this and say with pride that we will all remember you. Thank you.

Photo of Jack Sargeant Jack Sargeant Labour 7:08, 9 November 2021

I too am very grateful to speak in today's debate in a sense of cross-party spirit, which I believe it should be. And like Huw Irranca-Davies, one of the proudest moments of my time as a sitting Member of the Senedd was when I became an honorary member of the Royal Welch Fusiliers' Shotton and Deeside branch.

This evening's debate is an opportunity to reflect and to highlight the importance of the many acts of remembrance that will take place across Wales and across the United Kingdom in the coming days. Of course, like many others, I will be attending events here in my own community and paying my own tribute to all those who have served and do serve, and especially to those who have lost their lives defending all that we hold dear. Presiding Officer, we will remember them. 

I also pay tribute to all at the Royal British Legion for all that they do to make each year's poppy appeal such a success. One hundred years ago, the poppy was chosen as a symbol of remembrance because of how quickly it reappeared on the battlefields of the first world war. It serves as a link between the generations, a link that means we will never forget those who served and the sacrifices that they made. Presiding Officer, I hope we all have the opportunity in the coming days to attend acts of remembrance, and I would like to pay tribute and thanks to those in my community of Alyn and Deeside for organising such events. But I hope we all as a cross-party Senedd today make a commitment once again to always support our armed forces community. Diolch yn fawr.

Photo of Peter Fox Peter Fox Conservative 7:10, 9 November 2021

The coming days allow us to gather our thoughts and reflect on those who've served our nation over the years, and those who still serve today, keeping us safe. We will attend our remembrance services shortly, and we'll listen to the reading of the names from our cenotaphs and we'll try to picture those people who stood there before us and fell on behalf of us in the conflicts of years gone by. These poignant reminders ground us and bring us together with a sense of unity and sincere thankfulness. It is difficult to comprehend what it must have been like for those who made the ultimate sacrifice, especially in their last days and hours, and it's equally difficult to comprehend what many veterans are living with today, and our hearts go out to all of them.

Today, we think about those veterans, out in our communities, who carry the physical and mental scars of recent active service. We must do all we can to support those individuals like never before. Many live with haunting demons that PTSD brings with it. I've witnessed this first-hand, as the father of a young veteran. My son was a young soldier serving in Afghanistan when he was targeted by a suicide bomber on the streets surrounding Kabul. The armoured car he drove saved his life, but couldn't save him from the mental trauma that followed. He, like many thousands of others, struggled for years with a debilitating condition. My son was lucky that the Royal British Legion and other charities helped him in many ways and helped him climb out of that place he was in, and I will forever be grateful for those bodies.

But, sadly, there are so many veterans out there still needing specialist support that we must do all we can to find better ways to support them. We read in the news only a couple of days ago of the challenges facing ex-servicemen from as far back as the Falklands conflict, who still live haunted by their past experiences, but feel there isn't the support they really need. I'm sure there is a lot more we can do to help those who have stepped up for us, and I know all in this Chamber will want to make further progress to that end. In the recent autumn budget, it was good to see the announcement of funding for a Welsh veterans commissioner to improve the lives and opportunities of Welsh veterans in the community. I hope that our Minister can share how the Welsh Government has engaged with UK Government on this, and how the commissioner can help to oversee the delivery of the armed forces covenant in Wales.

I welcome some of the positive things that Welsh Government have been doing, as reported in the armed forces covenant annual report. We can all support the positive steps, like the Great Place to Work for Veterans scheme, and the support for the Veterans' NHS Wales service, with the additional funding recently announced by the Government. This has to be welcomed, as is the commitment to increased funding to the SSCE Cymru in support of service children in Wales, and also we support the great work of the armed forces liaison officers. However, the report also acknowledges several areas that could be improved and progressed, and I won't list those here, but I know all of us in this Chamber, from whatever party, will do all we can to support the Welsh Government to improve things where needed.

Deputy Llywydd, we are blessed to have the armed forces that we have, with servicemen and women of the highest order, totally dedicated to the people they serve. This has been demonstrated in spades over recent years, through times of disaster like flooding, and of course the past 18 months through the pandemic—one of the most difficult times in living memory. Our thanks go out to them all. It's reassuring to know they are always there when challenges present.

To conclude, in the coming days we will think of those who have gone before us and given so much, together with those who continue to live with the traumas of conflict and to those who are actively serving today. They are all in our thoughts, and we thank them all, present and past. Diolch.

Photo of David Rees David Rees Labour 7:14, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

I call on the Deputy Minister to reply to the debate.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour

Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd, and can I genuinely thank all Members for their thoughtful and heartfelt contributions to the debate this afternoon? I think Alun Davies hit the nail on the head when he opened by saying it's been a somewhat fractious afternoon in some of the debates and discussions we've had. But, actually, the tone and the nature in which this debate has been approached is testament not only to the topic itself, but, actually, to this institution as a whole as well. I'm sure he won't mind me saying—and I mean this in the nicest possible way—there are many things that I disagree with Darren Millar on, but on this issue we certainly have common cause. I look forward to continuing to work together and to take that forward, not only the work you do with the cross-party group, but actually in supporting the expert group too, and beyond that, and there are things that we continue to work on together and take forward.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 7:15, 9 November 2021

There were so many contributions from Members and I'll do my best to try and encapsulate and sum them up. Mark Isherwood talked about the role of those third sector voluntary organisations, and we absolutely recognise that, in Wales, we've been able to do what we have done and we'll be able to continue to build on that work because we work in partnership. I tried to note down all the organisations you did mention, but I'm not going to try and reel any off now because I will definitely forget somebody. All the organisations that you listed in your contribution actually contributed to the scoping exercise that we undertook and we continue to work with them to build on the work and take the points that they made to improve the support that's available for veterans and their families in Wales. And in terms of a resettlement centre, we are in contact with the Ministry of Defence about that to encourage the establishment of a resettlement centre in Wales, and I will continue to take that work forward and I would welcome any support from colleagues on the Conservative benches to also take that further with your colleagues in Westminster as well.

A number of Members touched on the more recent announcement in the UK budget of an armed forces commissioner. I know that we've always been clear on the approach in Wales of putting the resources into front-line services, but we welcome the dialogue with the Office for Veterans' Affairs and we will continue to work with them now and look at the practical implementation of the commissioner to make sure that it fits and aligns and complements the work that's already being done in Wales, and seeks to demonstrate how we can continue to work together to expand and build on that work.

Heledd Fychan, in your contribution you mentioned the importance in terms of remembrance not being about celebrating war, but recognising the commitment and the sacrifice that people made, but also redoubling our efforts to commit to peaceful resolution. You listed the proud commitment and tradition in Wales of a peace movement and our welcome for those who helped us in Afghanistan who've now relocated to Wales. I actually had the privilege on Saturday night to meet some of those 10 Afghan interpreters who've come over here who attended the festival of remembrance as special guests of 160th (Welsh) Brigade in St David's Hall. And actually, in making reference to St David's Hall, the First Minister was also in attendance at the event, and in Sam Kurtz's intervention to Darren Millar's contribution, he mentioned the VC Gallery and the great work of Barry John, and the Welsh Government is very pleased to have been able to support the VC Gallery and is in regular contact with them. And actually, Barry John penned the poem that was read by the First Minister at the festival of remembrance on Saturday night.

We've talked about the personal commitment, the personal connections. I know, Peredur Owen Griffiths, that you talked about your own personal connections and we've all talked about what we will be doing over the coming days and weeks. And on personal connections, I genuinely want to thank Peter Fox for sharing and talking to us about his son who served in Afghanistan and the impact that that has had on him since. I know that I speak on behalf of the Welsh Government and all of us here in thanking him not only for his service, but actually for reminding us of why it is so important that we continue to build on our efforts to do all that we can not just to say 'thank you', but actually to make sure that the support is there for those who need it when they need it as well. And likewise, we've heard about what people will be doing over the coming days to remember, to reflect and to recognise in our own constituencies, and, like many Members, I will, in a constituency like mine, be trying very hard to be in more than one place at the same time. I'm attending a service in Northop Hall on Thursday on Armistice Day itself, and then two services, one in the morning in Holywell and one in the afternoon in Flint on Remembrance Sunday. I know that Jack Sargeant talked much about how he is an honorary member of the local branch of the Royal Welch Fusiliers, and I know my constituency colleague Jack is very committed to supporting and to being there at the remembrance service. And I would say, if my great uncle Tommy is there, as I expect he will be, I'm saying from him now that he'd quite like a pint in the Labour club afterwards, Jack, if that's okay with you [Laughter.]

(Translated)

The Llywydd took the Chair.

Photo of Hannah Blythyn Hannah Blythyn Labour 7:20, 9 November 2021

Altaf Hussain talked about—. I absolutely support and echo the comments regarding the contribution of armed forces personnel from all faith backgrounds and all corners of the Commonwealth, and I know Jane Hutt attended a service in Cathays Park recently along with Race Council Wales and others to recognise the role that black and ethnic minority personnel have played in serving in conflicts.

In conclusion, Llywydd, our scoping exercise has demonstrated that—. As we've said today, I'm grateful for the cross-party consensus and recognition of the work we are doing in Wales, but do not disagree that, as always, there's always more that can be done, and we're keen to build on that work and the support that's available, and that was the thinking behind the scoping exercise. We're now taking those findings forward and putting them into practice. There is more to do. There is always more to do—more we can do and more we will do. We will continue to work with our partners to provide the services and support for our armed forces veterans and their families that they so rightly deserve. Diolch yn fawr. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 7:21, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

The proposal is to agree amendment 1. Does any Member object? There are no objections. Therefore, amendment 1 is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

(Translated)

Amendment agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 7:21, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

The next question is that the motion as amended should be agreed.

(Translated)

Motion NDM7819 as amended:

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Remembers and recognises the contribution of all those who have served and continue to serve in our Armed Forces, particularly those who paid the ultimate sacrifice.

2. Welcomes and pays tribute to the support that third sector organisations provide to our Armed Forces community in Wales, especially the Royal British Legion, which is in its 100th anniversary year.

3. Expresses the upmost gratitude for the efforts of the Armed Forces throughout the COVID-19 pandemic and the support they continue to provide in a number of settings, including for the Welsh Ambulance Service.

4. Notes the Welsh Government’s commitment to honouring the Armed Forces Covenant through the provision of bespoke services and support for our Armed Forces community and ongoing collaboration and engagement with stakeholders.

5. Supports the need to strive for peaceful resolutions to all conflicts and for an end to war

6. Remembers all those who have lost their lives in wars and conflicts, including civilian casualties.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 7:21, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

Does any Member object? There are no objections. Therefore, the motion as amended is agreed.

(Translated)

Amended motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 7:21, 9 November 2021

(Translated)

That brings us to voting time, but we will take a short break before moving to voting time in order to prepare for the votes.

(Translated)

Plenary was suspended at 19:21.

The Senedd reconvened at 19:27, with the Llywydd in the Chair.