5. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the potential impact of devolving control over the Crown Estate in Wales on renewable energy? OQ57138

Devolving control over the Crown Estate would give us greater flexibility in choosing how far and fast we deploy renewables, particularly in Welsh waters. We intend for the Independent Commission on the Constitutional Future of Wales to consider the Crown Estate within the context of a comprehensive assessment of the powers Wales needs.

Thank you for your answer, Minister. On a visit yesterday with Cardiff port, we discussed the amazing possibilities that Wales has in the area of renewable energy, and the conversation went on to devolving the Crown Estate to Wales as has happened in Scotland already. As the First Minister said recently and as you have suggested today, the managers of the port also believed that devolving the Crown Estate would be a good thing for Wales and would create great potential in the area of renewable energy. The great concern for them and for me is that we're going to miss an opportunity, a great opportunity, here in Wales and that other countries are going to get in front of us here. So, bearing in mind the comments of the First Minister and bearing in mind what you said and in considering the obvious potential of devolving the Crown Estate to Wales, why did you, as a Government, as Labour here in the Senedd, vote with the Tory party against the Plaid Cymru motion to devolve the Crown Estate to Wales last month?

Well, the short answer to that is because you combined it with a number of other things that we didn't like. So, turning to the Crown Estate issues, though, they have a significant impact, as he rightly said, in terms of renewables deployment, particularly in relation to sea bed leases, and they have a substantially strategic landholding for Wales. The timing of their leasing land certainly dictates the ability of Welsh-based projects to compete on a level playing field, I completely agree.

I've had a really good meeting, actually, with the Crown Estate, as has my colleague Lee Waters, to set out our priorities for renewable energy in Wales. We were both extremely robust in expressing our view that the Crown Estate has got to be an enabler in Wales, and we sought assurance that their ambition and timescales have not disadvantaged Wales in developing our marine and offshore renewables industry. But also, and perhaps much more importantly, in terms of our just transition plans, we agreed that local economic benefits need to be a material consideration in granting sea bed rights and contracts.

My colleague Lee Waters is, as I'm sure you're aware, conducting a deep dive into renewables to look at how we energise and mobilise a coalition for change across the public and private sectors to add pace to our development of renewables, and that includes ensuring that the Crown Estate behaves as an enabling partner, whilst they continue not to be devolved to Wales. We'll meet with the Crown Estate again following the deep-dive exercise to ensure its future engagement with Wales.

But the short answer to the Member's question is that if he wants us to agree to his proposals, he needs to make sure that they don't include things with which we don't agree.

Minister, before I go on to my question, every time you mention the Deputy Minister taking a deep dive, I do imagine him physically taking a deep dive from time to time. [Laughter.] But thanks to the Member for submitting this really important question regarding the potential impact of devolving control of the Crown Estate in Wales on renewable energy. I'm sure you'll be aware, Minister, that over the last 10 years, the Crown Estate has contributed a huge £3 billion to the public purse, and aside from help and support for vital public services, good management of these important assets by the Crown Estate has led to great benefits for the people of Wales, including continued work on renewable energy, which you mentioned a moment ago, supporting hundreds of jobs, reducing those carbon emissions and maximising the potential for taxpayers by those contributions back to the Treasury. So, Minister, would you agree with me that we should be spending our time and energy propagating opportunities to work with the Crown Estate in a spirit of unity, working together to benefit the people of Wales, rather than sowing seeds of conflict and division? Diolch yn fawr iawn.

I do absolutely agree that we need to manage our relationship with the Crown Estate, which is a very good one, in order to make sure that we do unlock the potential for renewables, as I've just said. However, the UK Government did devolve the Crown Estate to Scotland back in 2016, they have control of the Crown Estate in Scotland and, as a result, are able to do a number of things, including bidding rounds for renewables under their own control, that we are not able to do, and that is, necessarily, a disadvantage.

There's also an issue around the funding, so I'm not disagreeing with Sam Rowlands that we need to get on with the Crown Estate well and we need to make sure that we work happily with them, given the current state of play, but the Crown Estate are tasked specifically with generating a profit for the UK Treasury in England and Wales at the moment. That profit has totalled £3 billion over the last 10 years, and total net profits were £269.3 million in 2020-21, so I cannot pretend that I wouldn't much prefer to have a proportion of that coming direct to the Welsh Treasury instead of via the UK Government, who have been singularly unhelpful in making sure that we get a proper Barnettised formula. So, whilst I agree with the general thrust of his argument, there is undoubtedly a financial benefit, as is very obvious in Scotland, of having the Crown Estate devolved.

Question 6 next, to be answered by the Deputy Minister and asked by Delyth Jewell.