3. What assessment has the Welsh Government made of the percentage of the Welsh workforce earning at or above the real living wage? OQ57177

I thank Mike Hedges for that question, Llywydd. According to the Living Wage Foundation, in 2021, the proportion of employee jobs in Wales paid at least the real living wage was 82.1 per cent. Yesterday’s announcement of an increase in the hourly rate of the real living wage will benefit almost 13,000 workers in Wales at 359 accredited employers.

Can I thank you, First Minister, for your reply? Making Wales a nation where everybody gets paid at least the real living wage is one of my ambitions. Whilst the Welsh Government cannot instruct private companies that have no funding from the Welsh Government, they have influence over directly funded organisations and those who contract with Welsh Government-funded organisations and those who get Welsh Government funding. How does the Welsh Government influence such companies to pay the real living wage, which I believe everybody deserves?

I thank Mike Hedges for that. It's an ambition he set out that I certainly share, and, Llywydd, the good news was that there was a larger move forward in the number of employers accredited as paying the real living wage last year than for a number of years past, and that's despite all the difficulties that companies have faced in that period, and there were significant new accreditations this year—the Wales Millennium Centre, Techniquest, the Village Bakery in Wrexham, all joining that growing list of employers who recognise not just the social justice case that Mike Hedges set out, but the economic case for business. It's not just a reputational gain by being a real living wage employer; it means that you're more likely to recruit, you're more likely to retain, you're more likely to have people who want to contribute to the success of that company. There is a business argument for the real living wage.

I intend to write, Llywydd, to all public sector employers in Wales, following yesterday's announcement of the uplift in the real living wage, to urge them once again to commit to being on that accreditation journey. I'm happy to recognise, or at least I'm willing to recognise, that that journey will take longer for some bodies than others; what I'm not willing to accept is that you haven't committed to beginning that journey. And once you're in the process, then we have seen from events here in Cardiff—where we have a health board that is accredited, a council that is accredited, an ambition to be a real living wage city—once you're on the journey, then there will be a wind in your sails that will take you to the position that Mike Hedges set out in his supplementary question.

Diolch yn fawr iawn, Llywydd, and good afternoon, First Minister. First Minister, your Government says it aims to pay those working in social care the real living wage. While there is still no clarity as to when this will happen, there is no doubt that it's much needed. As we've just discussed, the Living Wage Foundation increased the living wage and it now stands at £9.90 per hour. But this is still below the level that we in the Welsh Conservatives and other opposition parties would pay our care staff—we pledge £10 per hour. First Minister, do you think it's right that somebody collecting trolleys in a supermarket earns as much as those caring for our most vulnerable citizens here in Wales? Do you think that's right?

Well, I imagine the Member is a good deal stronger a supporter of the market economy than I would be, but he appears willing to intervene in it when he thinks that it's to his advantage. I was pleased, Llywydd, to see that six care companies announced yesterday that they had joined the accredited list of companies in Wales who pay the real living wage. Our party, my party, made a commitment at the last election that we would pay carers in Wales the real living wage, and that is what we will do. We have now received the advice of the social care fair work forum; it met eight times in order to fashion that advice for us. There will be a ministerial meeting with the forum next week, and, when we publish our draft budget on 20 December, Members will see how we plan to put that pledge into action. 

Prif Weinidog, I share Mike Hedges's ambition, and agree with you with regard to the economic benefit of the real living wage. I'm dismayed by the Conservatives' comments, always trying to pit people against each other—it's sad and it's totally unnecessary.

Prif Weinidog, there are 300 accredited living wage employers in Wales, including every single higher education sector in Wales—the only country in the United Kingdom. I was pleased yesterday with Dafydd Llywelyn's announcement—Plaid Cymru's Police and Crime Commissioner in Dyfed-Powys—that Dyfed-Powys is following down that route, but the only police force in Wales. And, as you mentioned, Cwm Taf, Cwm Taf is the only—. Sorry, Cardiff and Vale is the only health board, but Cwm Taf is starting on that journey.

I note that you said that you'd write a letter to them, but what more can you do, Prif Weinidog, to urge these public bodies to make sure that, by the next Living Wage Week next year, all public bodies in Wales can be accredited, or certainly be starting that important journey forward? Diolch yn fawr.

I thank the Member for that supplementary question, and I agree with much of what he said. I too welcome the decision by the PCC of Dyfed-Powys to become an accredited employer, and Rhys ab Owen is right to point to the success of the higher education sector in Wales. In Swansea, in Mike Hedges's own city, it's a leading example of what can be done. The Welsh Government ourselves try to lead by example. We are an accredited real living wage employer. We fund Cynnal Cymru to be the vehicle that campaigns on this issue, that has had the success that I outlined earlier. The gap between the percentage of employees in Wales who are covered by the real living wage and elsewhere shrank again last year. It's been shrinking year by year, and we're now very close indeed to the UK position as well. We use the influence that we have through our economic contract, and certainly, in the letter that I will be writing to public bodies in Wales, I'll be making all the points that Members here have made about the benefits of doing so.