You missed out the word 'collectively'—we need to do this collectively. You seem to be laying all blame at the Welsh Government's feet, and that's absolutely not the case. I specifically said we have to do this in partnership. I haven't got all the answers, Welsh Government hasn't, and farmers haven't either, and it's really important they work collectively.

I didn't say I think we will have it in the future—I said I think we will have it in 2025, and one of the reasons I think we will have it in 2025—and, again, I said, if you'd been listening—is that Welsh Government has really led on the research in relation to that—way before my time, I'm not taking any credit, but Welsh Government has. But DEFRA are now taking a keen interest, and one of the reasons DEFRA are taking a keen interest, in my view, is because they don't think that culling has worked. So, if—you know, you're quoting figures at me. Why are they stopping culling? If it's so successful, why are England backing down and not carrying on with their culling? Why are they looking for something different to do? The reason is because they still have TB in the areas that you just referred to.

So, this TB eradication programme has now gone out to consultation, it's now there for people to put their views to it. I forget who said they didn't think it was robust enough; I think it might have been Llyr. I think it's important now that we hear people's views. But I never said any one thing was—. As I say, I really don't like the phrase 'silver bullet', I'm using the words that you as Conservatives are using, but there isn't one. If there was one, we would have all found it by now, wouldn't we?

One of the things I do think will help is a mandatory informed purchasing system. Certainly, it worked in New Zealand. They tell me that was probably the one thing that worked the best—so, again, out to consultation on that. We gave grant funding and, unfortunately, I don't think markets are providing that information, or maybe it's the purchasers who aren't providing it to the markets so that everybody can make that informed purchase.