Questions Without Notice from Party Spokespeople

2. Questions to the Minister for Rural Affairs and North Wales, and Trefnydd – in the Senedd at 2:25 pm on 17 November 2021.

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Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:25, 17 November 2021

(Translated)

Questions now from the party spokespeople. The Conservative spokesperson first of all—Samuel Kurtz.

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative

Diolch, Llywydd. Minister, in yesterday's bovine TB eradication strategy statement, you stated that one of the reasons you're stopping the trap and test of badgers is, in your words, because it proved unpopular with farmers. However, it could be argued that one of the reasons that contributed to the programme failing was that a list of participating farms was made public in 2018 in a perceived data breach, resulting in those participating farmers being harassed and bullied. Additionally, NFU Cymru president John Davies stated:

'Welsh Government appears to be unique in its thinking that this disease can be eradicated without proactively dealing with diseased animals in both cattle and wildlife populations.'

With concerns expressed by farmers over the Welsh Government's ability to handle sensitive data and to have an adequate approach to beating the disease without a holistic and proactive eradication strategy, what confidence can farmers have in your Government in winning the battle against bovine TB?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:26, 17 November 2021

Thank you. One of the reasons I stated as to why I was stopping the trap and test was that it was very resource-intensive and it hadn't given us the amount of data that I thought it would do. I think the funding that I previously had given to the test and trap scheme would be better used in badger vaccination. So, that's why I announced £100,000 yesterday. I absolutely recognise what you're saying about the breach in data that took place—I'm trying to remember if it was three or four years ago, but it was a few years ago, and obviously, we apologised. But I do want our farming sector and the community to have faith in this TB eradication programme. As we discussed at length yesterday, I think it's working. It's time to refresh it now, as it's been four years since we brought it forward, and I very much hope that people will take part in the consultation.

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative 2:27, 17 November 2021

Well, Minister, that will be disappointing, as NFU Cymru believe that it's a row-back, having this trap and test removed.

But moving away from TB and focusing on financial support, last week, the Economy, Trade and Rural Affairs Committee took evidence from the farming unions, who were asked about their concerns regarding rural development programme funding being unspent by the end of the programme. NFU Cymru expressed their disappointment that, despite the programme concluding last year, as of August of this year, a third of the original budget had still not been spent. Minister, do you share these concerns and agree with me that RDP funding must be spent effectively and in a transparent manner? What reassurances can you give farmers that your underspend won't have any impact on any future funding agreements?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:28, 17 November 2021

I do agree with you that it should be spent in full; I don't share concerns that it won't be. I remain confident that the RDP will be fully spent by the end of 2023, which is when it has to be spent by. I'm sure that you will appreciate that there have been considerable challenges for some projects due to the impact of the pandemic and the ongoing effect of us leaving the European Union. I recently announced Glastir agri-environment contract extensions for two years, through the RDP, which I think was very much welcome. Because I did want to provide certainty to those environmental projects that we didn't lose the gains that we have had through them, ahead of the transition to the sustainable farming scheme. The current project-level commitment stands at £764.7 million and that represents 91.2 per cent commitment of funds against a total programme value of over £838 million.

Photo of Samuel Kurtz Samuel Kurtz Conservative 2:29, 17 November 2021

Thank you. You mentioned those environmental projects, and on the topic of effective and transparent RDP payments, figures released by the Welsh Government have confirmed that a growing proportion of the Welsh Government's Glastir woodland creation fund is being used to finance tree-planting projects on Welsh farmland purchased by foreign businesses, with no benefit to Wales or our communities and contrary to our own attempts to tackle climate change. Given that large businesses from outside of Wales are accessing Glastir grants, yet local farmers such as David Mills from Powys are being penalised and fined thousands of pounds for doing the right thing in planting trees, will you disclose to the Siambr how much taxpayers' money, allocated via the Glastir woodland creation fund, has been given to multimillion-pound businesses to plant trees in Wales?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:30, 17 November 2021

So, I am obviously aware of the case you refer to, and I can't comment because obviously it’s going through a process.

In relation to multinationals buying land in Wales, obviously this is something that is concerning me and I met with the farming unions last week and asked them if they were able to provide evidence. They both raised it with me. And one of the unions did say to me that a lot of it is anecdotal, so I would prefer to have hard facts, and they have committed to doing that, because I think it is important that we do know what land is being bought up.

However, I’m hearing all the time that large parcels of land are being bought up and trees planted. You’ll be aware that we haven’t achieved our tree-planting targets for a long time. So, I’m trying to balance this out, but we do need a step-change increase in woodland creation and I do think that it’s our farmers who are best placed to be able to do that for us.

So, I think there are two separate issues there. I think we need to know who we are selling our land to. Unfortunately, as you say, some of the funding is going to addresses not in Wales. I don’t think it’s as significant as you are implying. And, again, if you have the evidence, please send it to me, but I think we all agree that a lot of it is anecdotal. But just looking at the sustainable farming scheme, within that, I am very keen to be able to help our farmers who want to plant trees, who want to plant hedges and edges and to be able to support them to do so.

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 2:31, 17 November 2021

(Translated)

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Cefin Campbell.

Photo of Cefin Campbell Cefin Campbell Plaid Cymru

(Translated)

Thank you, Llywydd. As we look beyond COP26, we must now, of course, turn our words into actions to tackle the climate emergency. During the summit, there was an agriculture day and leaders within the farming sector in Wales made ambitious and very firm commitments to help Wales reach its net-zero ambitions.

Of course, we understand that we need a viable agricultural industry in Wales to ensure that we don't see fewer steps being taken to safeguard the natural environment and fewer economic contributions by the sector to the Welsh economy. And we certainly don't want to see negative impacts on the climate by importing farm produce from abroad, as we've heard might be possible, particularly from Australia and New Zealand.

Over the past few weeks, Hybu Cig Cymru published an update to its report, 'Perfecting the Welsh Way', which includes guidance on farming sheep and producing beef in a sustainable manner. NFU UK also published a comprehensive report on how the sector can lead the way towards net zero. And this is very different to the empty rhetoric we've heard from the Tories on climate change. Does the Minister agree, therefore, that the contribution of farmers is crucial to achieving net zero and that they are part of the solution and not of the problem?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour

Yes, I absolutely agree with you that they're part of the solution and certainly I think—. You mentioned NFU on a UK level, but NFU Cymru I think have been—they set out their strategy before we did. I think they have been very clear that they see themselves as part of the solution and they don't come asking questions—they come with answers. So, I think they have really led the way in relation to that. 

I very much welcomed Hybu Cig Cymru's new report, 'Perfecting the Welsh Way'. That again recognises the actions that will be required by Welsh livestock farmers towards achieving the sustainability targets that we've set and they provide guidance for continuous improvement. We too have concerns about the UK trade deals with New Zealand and Australia that have been agreed in principle and officials continue to make representations to the UK Government.

Photo of Cefin Campbell Cefin Campbell Plaid Cymru 2:34, 17 November 2021

(Translated)

Thank you very much. Of course, the Conservative Government in Westminster hasn't only broken its pledges on climate change for the second year on the trot. We've seen promises broken on funding for agriculture in Wales. Now, the relative cuts to agricultural funding and rural development announced in the comprehensive spending review last month break a manifesto pledge made by the Conservatives not to cut rural funding. The expenditure review, and you'll remember 'not a penny less,' that £300 million on average would be allocated to Wales for agriculture over the next three years. Now, this means £37 million less than the budget allocated in 2019, in the year when the Conservatives in their manifesto pledged that there would be no cuts to the budget for farmers. Now this means that agriculture in Wales over the next years, over the next four years in fact, will see a reduction of £248 million, revealing the emptiness of the rhetoric of the Conservatives and the Brexiteers in their manifesto of 2019. 

So, how is this cut going to impact the previous commitment made by the Minister in terms of maintaining basic payment scheme funding for farmers over the next few years, and what steps will she take to ensure that these cuts don't impact or undermine family farms or the rural economy?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:36, 17 November 2021

You make a very important point, and certainly, the UK Government have clearly let down our farmers and our rural communities here in Wales. As you say, we will lose out on over £106 million of replacement EU funding over the spending review period. That's on top of last year's £137 million that wasn't provided for my budget from the UK Government. That netting away of that funding would not have happened if we'd still been in the European Union. As you probably are aware, and you will have heard the Minister for finance in her questions saying, this rhetoric—and it was rhetoric, wasn't it—around not a penny less is just not coming to fruition, and I know both myself and the Minister for finance have continually complained about the methodology that has been used by the UK Government. And I'm very disappointed that they didn't take a different approach this year following our representations last year.

So, it does leave rural Wales with significantly less funding than if we had remained within the European Union. So, obviously now, we will all have to take this into consideration as a Cabinet ahead of our budget being announced on 20 December. 

Photo of Cefin Campbell Cefin Campbell Plaid Cymru 2:37, 17 November 2021

(Translated)

Thank you. It's clear therefore that supporting Welsh farmers isn't a high priority for the Tories in Westminster.

Now, in moving on and looking more particularly at future farming policy beyond the current funding, one of the concerns expressed by the sector is the capping of payments. To date, the Welsh Government has refused to commit to capping payments that would make the most of the funds provided to small family farms. Now, in addition to the issues in terms of defining what an active farmer means, then ceasing capping payments would open the door for private individuals and large organisations to take funds away from small family farms and rural communities. 

Now, from 2023 onwards, as you know, the European Commission is taking major steps to redistribute the financial support more fairly to farmers, and this will mean a clearer definition of an active farmer. Can the Minister alleviate the concerns of the sector today therefore by committing specifically to maintain or reduce the current cap on payments, and to follow the examples of the new cap, which is being recommended by the European Union in order to provide fair play to Welsh farmers?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 2:39, 17 November 2021

Well, I'm sure, as you can appreciate, as the sustainable farming scheme is obviously in development, I can't commit here in the Chamber to that, but I do have representations being made to me regularly regarding the capping of payments, and will certainly be looking at that as part of the sustainable farming scheme. 

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