Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:25 pm on 23 November 2021.
Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I first of all thank the Minister for the advance copy of the statement, which was greatly appreciated? I share in your pleasure that we're seeing those rates of COVID lower in Wales. That is positive news, albeit from a very, very high case rate, and of course I share your concern as well about the level of those that are sadly dying from COVID.
I wonder if I can firstly ask, Minister, some questions around vaccine passports. The most alarming part, to me, of your statement today was that you are keeping it as an option to introduce COVID passes for the hospitality sector. This is particularly, I think, concerning. In your statement, Minister, you say that you'll continue to work with the sector, so what are they telling you? What are the hospitality sector telling you in regard to the introduction of COVID passes for their sector, and what are their asks, as well? Previously, when I have raised the issue about additional cost, the answer back, the reply, has been, 'Well, if you're going into a theatre or a cinema, then you have to show documentation so there shouldn't be any additional work in that regard.' This is different for the hospitality sector. If you're a cafe or a restaurant or some elements of the other parts of the hospitality sector, you will require additional staff, potentially, to be on the door, and of course there is an issue at the moment in terms of attracting staff to come and work in the hospitality sector, let alone the cost that is attached to it. As this option is remaining on the table, can you outline what discussions you're having with the economy Minister and the finance Minister in regard to additional financial support for the hospitality sector, should you extend COVID passes in this regard? I certainly hope you won't, for all the reasons that I've previously outlined.
In regard to evidence, you referred in your statement today to the case rates in parts of Europe, in some of the continental countries of Europe. Case rates are increasing at an alarming rate. Some of those countries, of course, have had COVID passes for some time, so the data should be there if the evidence is there. I appreciate that in Wales there's time for the vaccine passport to bed in, and that data may not yet be available, but I think it is particularly crucial to have that evidence as soon as possible in regard to the effectiveness of COVID passes, particularly since a number of studies have shown that people who are double vaccinated are just as likely to pass on COVID as unvaccinated people. So, it's all the more crucial that we have the evidence that demonstrates the support for COVID passes, if you believe that is the appropriate way forward, which I, of course, don't.
Minister, if I can ask about mandatory vaccinations, in your statement you correctly, of course, point out that there was, in Austria, a full lockdown yesterday, and they will make vaccinations compulsory from February, and other countries are considering the same as well. I am entirely opposed to vaccinations being compulsory. I think that is the Welsh Government's position and that is your position as well. I'd be grateful if you could confirm that is the position or not. I certainly agree with you that vaccination is our best defence against the awful virus, and I think that we should all be encouraging everyone to take up the vaccination in that regard, but your thoughts on mandatory vaccination would be appreciated.
Walk-in vaccination centres for booster jabs—I think this is the appropriate way forward, particularly as we go to those lower age groups. You yourself say you want to encourage people to be vaccinated. I agree with that. To do that, I think we need walk-in centres, particularly as we go to those lower age groups, because those lower age groups are going to be in a working environment, and we need to make it as easy as possible for people to have those booster jabs. Now, previously, you have said that you don't support this approach, that it's a free-for-all. Do you still hold that position? I'd be grateful if you could outline which health boards across Wales are considering or have introduced walk-in centres because I think there is a disparity about what is happening across Wales. So, in the context of your view that you have got concern that they are a free-for-all, and also, that some health boards are operating walk-in centres and others aren't, your views in that regard would be appreciated.
And, finally, I'm sure as you have, I have deep concerns, of course, about the state of the current NHS in Wales. Last month, we saw the worst ever A&E waiting times, the worst ever ambulance response times, the longest treatment waiting lists on record—nearly 9,500 people waiting more than 12 hours for emergency treatment. That's 2,000 more people in Wales than the whole of England, and considering England is 16 times bigger, that's a concerning position. We've got one in four patients that are waiting over a year for treatment compared to one in 19 in England. So, the staff, as you say, are doing a fantastic job, health Minister, and what they need, of course, is support to do their job. So, I'm highly concerned, as you are—