The Co-operation Agreement

3. Topical Questions – in the Senedd on 1 December 2021.

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Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative

(Translated)

1. Will the First Minister make a statement on the mechanisms of the Co-operation Agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru? TQ584

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:29, 1 December 2021

The First Minister and the leader of Plaid Cymru this morning signed the co-operation agreement. The agreement, the detailed policy programme and the mechanisms document that sets out how the agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru will work have also been published.

Photo of Paul Davies Paul Davies Conservative 3:30, 1 December 2021

Minister, the mechanisms of the co-operation agreement that have been published this morning make for some very interesting reading. And given the huge impact that this coalition will have on the people of Wales, it's very disappointing that the Welsh Government has chosen not to come forward with an oral statement to this Chamber outlining these mechanisms, so that Members can have the opportunity to scrutinise and ask questions. It's even more disappointing that the First Minister is not here to respond to this very important question. So, Trefnydd, can you explain to us why the Welsh Government has chosen not to make a statement on this agreement in this Chamber, and is instead being forced to respond to an opposition topical question? Because I'm sure even Labour backbenchers would welcome the opportunity to scrutinise this particular deal.

Turning to the details of the mechanisms, the document confirms that

'the Welsh Government agrees to take decisions jointly with Plaid Cymru across the agreed range of co-operation' on 46 policy areas. However, the Welsh Government has given itself the flexibility to widen the scope of this agreement, as the document says that

'Any decision to widen the scope of co-operation in this agreement in the interim and any other amendment to it may be made by the joint agreement of the First Minister and the Leader of Plaid Cymru.'

And widening the scope of this agreement is even more explicit, as Plaid Cymru has agreed to facilitate the passing of annual and supplementary budgets in exchange for influence on other budgetary matters. Therefore, does the Welsh Government accept that this agreement covers more than just the 46 areas of policy that it initially set out to the people of Wales this morning?

Of course, the agreement will have an impact on Senedd business, and I note that both parties claim to respect the independence of the Senedd committee system and the distinctive roles and functions of the respective parties within the Senedd. So, Trefnydd, can you confirm what discussions have been had with the Presiding Officer regarding the impact of this agreement on Senedd business?

The document also makes it clear that the co-operation agreement will be supported by a civil service unit, known as the co-operation agreement unit. So, Trefnydd, can you tell us exactly how much taxpayers' money has been earmarked for this new unit, and indeed any other aspects of machinery that will be put in place to support this specific agreement?

The document also says that Plaid Cymru designated Members will have the same responsibilities as Welsh Government Ministers to respect the political impartiality of the civil service, and will be bound by aspects of the ministerial code. Can you tell us why that is the case, given the document makes it explicitly clear that they will not be represented by ministerial or deputy ministerial appointments in the Welsh Government? Trefnydd, did the leader of Plaid Cymru just forget to ask for Plaid ministerial appointments?

And finally, Trefnydd, this agreement says that the involvement of Plaid Cymru is recognised as part of normal Government communications, and, as such, this is a coalition in everything but name. So why won't the Welsh Government just come clean with the people of Wales and call it what it is—a coalition?

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:33, 1 December 2021

The First Minister is unable to be with us this afternoon, but I'm here, obviously, to answer on behalf of the Welsh Government, and I'm very pleased to answer your questions. That often happens with topical questions. You asked some very specific questions, which you're absolutely right to do, but I should point out that a lot of the arrangements in relation to the co-operation agreement are the functions of the Government, which clearly is not the responsibility of the Senedd—it is a matter for the Welsh Government to work through.

You ask about Plaid Cymru in relation to Senedd business. Well, that is absolutely a matter for the Llywydd, for the remuneration board, and for the Senedd Commission. You ask what discussions have taken place. You may be aware that the Llywydd has been in correspondence with the First Minister, and they continue to be in correspondence. And I know, prior to the announcement of the co-operation agreement, discussions were certainly undertaken at an official level.

This is not a coalition, it is a co-operation agreement. And if you look back at the last 22 years of the Senedd, and, prior to that, the Assembly, every Assembly since we've had devolution 22 years ago has involved a partnership arrangement of some sort. We haven't had a co-operation agreement before, but we do see many different arrangements, right across the world. This is not novel; it's different to what we've had before, but it's certainly not novel. And we absolutely have a history of working collaboratively, for the benefit of the people of Wales. We're very happy if the Tory party want to enter into informal arrangements with us. You know the First Minister wrote to the leader of the opposition around a clean air Bill, for instance. The trouble is, the Tories aren't interested in working collaboratively, and I think that says more about your party than it does about my party. 

You asked around funding for the co-operation agreement unit. Well, as you may have heard the First Minister say, money has been set aside, and that will be part of our draft budget, which we'll be publishing later this month, and, of course, you will be able to scrutinise that. 

In relation to your question around the code of conduct for Plaid Cymru designated Members, as you will have seen, that's been put into annex A, which was published as part of the mechanism document of the agreement this morning. But I do reiterate that this is not a coalition; it's an agreement to deliver a shared programme of work through the co-operation agreement for a three-year period.

Photo of Alun Davies Alun Davies Labour 3:36, 1 December 2021

It might not be a coalition, but it looks like one. I welcome the agreement. I welcome the publication of the documents today that underpin the agreement; I think that's important in terms of transparency. I welcome the politics of the agreement; I think it's a good thing to do. And I welcome the statement from the Presiding Officer this morning on the advice that she has taken. 

But this does raise questions for us as a Parliament, and I don't believe the Government can wipe that under any carpet and pretend it doesn't exist. The Government is already too powerful in this Chamber. It is powerful, and it does not receive the same scrutiny as other Governments receive, either in Westminster or Holyrood, or even in Stormont. So, there are questions here, because Plaid Cymru will have a role that goes beyond that of simply a budget agreement that we have experienced before. The fact that there is a finance committee within Government overseeing public expenditure I think is right, and I think is proper, and I welcome it, but it is different and it does put Plaid Cymru in a different situation. 

I welcome the fact that there are designated Members. I welcome Siân Gwenllian's appointment, which I saw on Twitter earlier this afternoon. I think it will empower the Welsh Government, and I think it will strengthen the Welsh Government, but again, it asks questions about scrutiny. I welcome the fact that there are agreements in place between the two parties to manage business in this Chamber. Again, that asks questions. It is not credible to argue that the agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru means that Plaid Cymru does not have an executive role. That is simply not a credible argument to make. 

I do believe that we need to consider this matter. I'm not sure that the format of a topical question this afternoon is the best way of resolving these matters, but I do believe that the Presiding Office, and the Government, and all of us as Members, need to take the same approach to the scrutiny of Government as Plaid Cymru and the Welsh Government have taken to the delivery of Government. Good government is improved by better scrutiny. We need to ensure that the structures are in place within this Parliament to ensure that this Parliament is not made redundant and a bystander over the next three years.

Photo of Lesley Griffiths Lesley Griffiths Labour 3:38, 1 December 2021

I think we've been very open and transparent. We've published all the documentation this morning, which absolutely sets out how it will work. I don't think we could have been any more open and transparent, and, certainly, we have nothing to hide. I don't think anybody's arguing about the role of Plaid Cymru. The status of Plaid Cymru as a party in this Chamber, as I said in my answer to Paul Davies, is a matter for the Llywydd, for the Senedd Commission, and for the remuneration board. The working of Government is a matter for the Welsh Government—the internal workings—which, I have to say, are very dry; everybody suddenly seems very interested in them. The Member will know very much that this is not a coalition. He understands full well what a coalition is. 

Photo of Elin Jones Elin Jones Plaid Cymru 3:39, 1 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you, Trefnydd, for responding to that question.