Item 8 today is a debate on approval of the children's rights scheme. I call on the Deputy Minister for Social Services to move the motion—Julie Morgan.

Motion NDM7858 Lesley Griffiths

To propose that the Senedd:

1. Approves the draft revised Children’s Rights Scheme in accordance with section 3(6) of the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011.

2. Notes that the revised Children’s Rights Scheme will be published no later than 31 December 2021.

Motion moved.

Diolch. A couple of weeks ago it was United Nations Universal Children's Day, and I had the great pleasure of attending the Young Wales conference, which brought together young people from across Wales for a conversation with Government Ministers. It was a privilege to be part of this event. It provided me, together with the First Minister and other Cabinet Ministers, including the Minister for Social Justice, with an opportunity to hear directly from children and young people about their concerns, issues and hopes for the future. The conference was designed by young people for young people, and the topics ranged from climate change and mental health and well-being to equality and diversity issues, and the Deputy Minister for Mental Health was also there at the conference. The conference enabled an honest and direct dialogue between Government and young people, which was incredibly valuable.

The importance of children's voice is central to the draft children's rights scheme 2021, which we are debating today. It's 10 years since we introduced the Rights of Children and Young Persons (Wales) Measure 2011, which places a duty on Welsh Ministers to pay due regard to the requirements of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. This provides children with the right to life, health, education, play and family, as well as protection from violence, discrimination and suppression. This important legislation has ensured that children and children's rights are central to policy making and legislation here in Wales. As Members will be aware, the Measure sets out a requirement for us to publish a children's rights scheme. It is right that 10 years after the Measure was introduced, we revisit the scheme and review our arrangements.

Before outlining some of the key changes in the revised scheme, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank the previous Children, Young People and Education Committee for their inquiry into children's rights. Their report, which was published in August of last year, has been an incredible source of evidence for us as we have updated the scheme. So, what approach was taken to update the scheme? We looked closely at the children's commissioner's 'The Right Way—A Children’s Rights Approach in Wales', adopting the five ways of working. The revised scheme has, therefore, been structured around the following key principles: how to embed children's rights; how to ensure equality and non-discrimination for all children; how to empower children; how to facilitate meaningful participation; and how to put in place clear accountability structures. Structuring the scheme in this way helps integrate children's rights even further into the decision-making process. I consulted on the draft scheme between December 2020 and March 2021, and I'd like to thank all of those who responded, especially the children and young people who took the time to share their thoughts with us. 

I will highlight some of the key features in the revised scheme. First, we've developed a manual to provide practical advice and support for Welsh Government officials to embed children's rights within their day-to-day work. It provides a step-by-step guide on how to complete a children’s rights impact assessment and, as I’m sure Members are aware, the children’s rights impact assessment, as part of the integrated impact assessment process, provides a framework for Welsh Government officials to think about and record whether our policy proposals are supporting children and young people’s rights. It enables us to identify possible impacts, both positive and negative, on children with different life experiences. The manual also provides advice and guidance on how to engage with children and young people, as well as links to the latest training and resources. It’s intended to be a flexible resource that can be updated when required, to ensure that officials and Ministers have access to the latest evidence. To support transparency, we published the manual ahead of this debate, and shared the link with Members. Following the committee’s report, we moved swiftly to publish completed child rights impact assessments on the Welsh Government’s website, and I can confirm that we will continue.

Secondly, we’ve developed a new model to support Ministers and officials in engaging with children and young people. Article 12 of the UNCRC gives children the right to have their say in matters that affect them, and to have their opinions taken into account. Our model seeks to enable the voice of the child to be heard at every level of Government—at ministerial level, within Government departments, and within individual policy teams. It aims to promote principles of good practice when working with children and young people, ensuring participatory work is representative, reflects the diverse nature of children and young people in Wales, and encourages officials to work on a long-term basis with children and young people to increase the depth of participation and the quality of insight. As I’m sure Members are aware, Ministers meet children and young people on a regular basis, however, the scheme sets out the expectation that every Minister and Deputy Minister will meet with children and young people each year. This highlights the value we place on hearing the voice of children and young people in every part of Government.

Thirdly, we’ve published our raising awareness plan for children’s rights. We know children and young people cannot access and enjoy their rights unless they themselves and those around them know about the UNCRC and their rights. Article 42 of the UNCRC states that governments must actively work to make sure that children and adults know about the convention. The aim of our plan goes beyond sharing knowledge, and seeks to empower children and young people to exercise their rights as citizens of Wales and the world. It’s aimed at children, young people, their parents and carers, as well as professionals working with children and young people. A key part of this plan will be our work with key stakeholders, including the children’s commissioner and UNICEF, to develop a collective vision, to improve awareness and understanding of the UNCRC. And Universal Children’s Day, which is held on 20 November each year, will be an important date to use to raise awareness of children’s rights across Government and beyond.

And fourthly, we have enhanced the feedback and the complaints process for young people. This is something the children, young persons and education committee raised in its report. We want to make it as easy as possible for children and young people to have their voices heard. We really want to hear from them about what we do well and where we can do better.

And the fifth area that I’d like to mention is the package of support for officials and Ministers to effectively deliver these arrangements. This includes e-learning modules for all Welsh Government staff on children’s rights and children’s rights impact assessments, as well as inviting external speakers to address Welsh Government officials and Ministers on children’s rights issues. The children’s commissioner recently gave an insightful presentation to officials to coincide with Universal Children’s Day. So, together, these arrangements complement the manual for staff that I mentioned earlier.

And, lastly, but crucially, in terms of accountability, we've reaffirmed our commitment within this scheme to report on progress every 2.5 years.

So, in conclusion, I commend this revised scheme to you. These arrangements, together with available support, underpin our commitment to furthering children's rights. So, I look forward to listening to Members' views. Diolch yn fawr.

The Welsh Conservatives welcome the Government's draft children's right scheme 2021, and we will be supporting today's motion before us. However, there is always a caveat to these things, isn't there? While we welcome the children's rights scheme, we have real concerns that the Welsh Government's actions do not improve the rights of Welsh children.

It has been 10 years since this Parliament introduced the children's rights Measure, which

'places a duty on Welsh Government Ministers to have due regard to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child', yet Welsh Ministers continue to disregard that duty whenever it suits them.

Each year, the Welsh Government publish a budget but totally fail in their duty to conduct a thorough children's rights impact assessment. CRIAs are vital tools in ensuring all Government policies adhere to the UNCRC. By failing to conduct rights impact assessments on public spending, we are left with little to no clarity on how budgetary decisions are impacting Welsh children. This has led to condemnation by both the children's commissioner and the Senedd's children's committee. In the report of the United Kingdom's children's commissioners to the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, it was noted that, and I quote:

'The Welsh government has cut budget lines where a detailed CRIA would have identified the child rights impact, for example, uniform grants and funding for disadvantaged learners. While these were later overturned, it is concerning that these situations occur.'

Who knows what would have happened if the children's commissioner had not been there to stand up for Welsh children. These decisions would not have been reversed, that's for certain. It's not just the failure to conduct CRIAs that is concerning; many of us feel that Welsh Government CRIAs aren't worth the paper they're written on. Far too often, integrated impact assessments are passed off as children's rights impact assessments—an approach that is wholly inadequate and does not reflect the true impact of decisions upon the rights of Welsh children.

Will you take an intervention?

Yes, indeed. Sorry, I was in the zone then.

I wonder if you could just clarify: does the UK Government do a children's rights impact assessment when it's looking at its budget?

With it being a UNCRC, I'd imagine it's a universal way that all Governments sign up to. So, I'm not sure on the details of the UK Government, but my job primarily is to scrutinise the Welsh Government, which I'm trying to do, and not to talk too much about the UK Government, which seems to be the trend these days.

So, where was I? Throughout the pandemic, the rights of children have been at best ignored and at worst eroded. Children and young people have suffered the most, yet they are unlikely to suffer serious illnesses from COVID. At the start of the COVID outbreak, schools were closed to help stop the spread of the virus. No regard was given to the impact this had on children. Welsh Government failed to conduct rights assessments on any of its COVID regulations. When the Government's measures adversely impacted young people, it once again took the intervention of the children's commissioner to overturn the decision to omit 16 and 17-year-olds from revised regulations allowing single people to join an extended household bubble. This oversight by Welsh Government would have been caught before the legislation was introduced, had they conducted a CRIA. Even now, when the vast majority of adults are vaccinated against COVID, schools are still closing to curb the spread of a virus that has little to no impact on young people. How is this protecting the rights of children and young people in Wales?

I hope that, alongside the children's rights scheme, the Welsh Government will commit to conducting children's rights impact evaluations. The draft budget will include a CRIA and will have been drafted in compliance with the 2011 children's rights Measure. They will guarantee no more school closures due to COVID and commit to holding an independent Welsh public inquiry into the Welsh Government's handling of COVID-19. Welsh Government's handling of the pandemic has had such a profound impact on children that we need a Welsh public inquiry in order to learn the lessons and strengthen the rights of children in Wales. Thank you very much.

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this important debate, and Plaid Cymru will be supporting the motion, because it's crucial that we protect and promote the rights of children in Wales, and we cannot cut any corners while doing so. We know that children in Wales are particularly socioeconomically disadvantaged as we have the highest child poverty rate of any UK nation. The children's commissioner has called child poverty the Welsh Government's biggest challenge. This is not, however, a new challenge, although we know that the COVID-19 pandemic and the effects of regulations have often made it difficult for many children and young people to realise the rights they are entitled to. The challenge of which the children's commissioner and many children's organisations in Wales speak has, of course, been exacerbated by the austerity imposed on our nation by consecutive Tory Governments, but there is also the ineffectiveness of the Welsh Government to tackle child poverty.

While areas in the co-operation agreement between the Welsh Government and Plaid Cymru will now be of immense help to alleviate the disadvantage inflicted by poverty, such as the entitlement to free childcare for two-year-olds and free school meals for all primary school children, we shouldn't stop there. We cannot lose ambition when protecting those most vulnerable in our society—those who are nothing less than the future of our nation. These long-needed policies are first steps. And when I hear some Members on other benches talk about the cost of these steps, it frankly makes me angry and so frustrated, because when addressing issues such as this, we need to talk less about cost and more about investment—investment in our most important priority. Not a priority, but the priority. And if we don't adopt that mindset, then we will never achieve that which the motion before us represents: a true and binding commitment to hearing and recognising the needs of children, and of putting those needs at the heart of everything we do and want to achieve as a nation in social, economic, cultural, civil and political terms.

An issue that has been repeatedly raised by reports and stakeholders when evaluating the effectiveness of Welsh Government in implementing the UNCRC is that of child rights impact assessments, and we've heard a bit about it this afternoon. While impact assessments are, obviously, an important tool, they must not become that tick-box exercise, and should be, instead, influencing policy—really meaningfully influencing policy.

As we heard the Senedd committee—. The Children, Young People and Education Committee found that child rights impact assessments were being produced far too late in the policy development process, which, of course, is not only detrimental for children and young people’s rights, but suggests that children's rights are not always driving decisions made by Government. As these integrated impact assessments play a role in the draft children's rights scheme being voted on today, the Government must take care to ensure these assessments are carried out properly with due care to benefit the children of Wales. Too often, progressive and enlightened policy falls at that hurdle of implementation.

These impact assessments are also being used to tackle issues of discrimination among different groups of children. We know that young people in Wales face Islamophobia, racism, ableism and other forms of discrimination throughout their time in the Welsh education system and in their wider social life. Recent surveys and reports have shown this to be true, such as the horrific picture revealed by the Everyone's Invited website, which shows how some of our school pupils are having to deal with this terrible culture of misogyny, sexual harassment, online sexual abuse and sexual coercion. So, given the rising tide of this and many other forms of hate crime in our society, many younger people from specific groups may be particularly concerned about their safety and rights. And it's important the Government provide particular support to these groups of children and do them justice within impact assessment. Due diligence should also be paid as to when bullying crosses on to that territory of hate crime, and to ensure the cumulative impact of discrimination on young people does not get to a point where it traumatises a young person and amounts to an adverse childhood experience. We know the human and economic cost of childhood trauma is too high and long lasting. We must do everything we can to prevent it and not just address these issues.

Children and young people cannot be supported to realise their rights as citizens of Wales and the world if they're not aware of them. The lack of awareness of children's rights by children themselves and the wider public was another issue raised by the committee report. Conducting regular reviews, therefore, on the effectiveness of this plan is key to ensure it has the needed reach and the desired results.

One of the things the Senedd can be most proud of, of course, is the Senedd Ieuenctid—the Youth Parliament; we heard it elected here last week—and the decision to lower the voting age to our Senedd to 16. There's no doubt that these steps will help decision makers and policy makers to hear the unique perspective of our younger citizens. But I know, all too often, children sometimes try and make their voices heard, their opinions are not valued, and this is often seen when we look at decisions to close schools, for example—

You need to conclude now.

The channels outlined by which our young people can make their voices heard must be meaningful. To create cynicism and hopelessness in our young people is unforgivable, it'll erode and render meaningless not only any rights awareness campaign and modes of participation in decisions, but also the whole principle upon which this children's rights scheme rests. Diolch.

Dirprwy Lywydd, in modern western society, there is a general consensus that there is a clear distinction between children and adults, which stems from children being defined as less physically and mentally mature. However, this has not always been the case, as, throughout different periods in history, in different countries and cultures, views on what children should do at certain ages, such as how they are taught and socialised, as well as what age they become a legal adult, have changed and differed. For example, in the UK, recognition of childhood as a state different from adulthood didn't even begin to emerge until the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, when society began to relate to the child not as a miniature adult, but as a person of a lower level of maturity in need of adult love and nurture. This continued into the eighteenth century and led to the Prevention of Cruelty to, and Protection of, Children Act 1889, the children's charter, and that today we have the 1989 child protection Act, which places responsibility for protecting and nurturing children with the parents, but upheld that, if they failed in this responsibility, the state would take over this function.

I say all of this to make the point that childhood is a social construct, created by adults, predominantly determined by adults and influenced by what adult communities believe is best for the child in relation to what they perceive their own responsibilities and rights to be. So, not only does this paradigm tend to reinforce the authority that adults could have over children, but it also means that children's rights are often denied when they conflict with human right norms, and that is why I'm a big fan of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, as it maintains that children should be treated as human beings in their own right, with particular emphasis on always consulting with them about decisions that affect their lives. I am pleased and proud that the children's rights scheme is a requirement the Welsh Government has placed on itself to ensure that this is happening in Wales. There is no greater example of this in practice than the children (Wales) Bill, which will help protect children's rights by prohibiting the physical punishment of children. I was not a Member of the Senedd when this legislation was passed, but I am so proud that it was, because where children's rights conflicted with adult rights, our Welsh Government and Members of the Senedd put them on an equal footing, and we can never underestimate how significant, exceptional and vital that this was, and it was a clear demonstration of the Welsh Government's commitment to the UNCRC.

I believe we also see this in our Welsh Youth Parliament, who represent young people in the communities and lift up their voices, ensuring that policies and progress are not done to them but very much with them. Our very own Ewan Bodilly, who is a member of the Bridgend Youth Council, will be representing Bridgend constituency, and I look forward to working with him on his key issues, which include youth mental health care, the climate emergency and university tuition fees.

So, there is a lot of good being done in Wales, in line with the UNCRC. However, when it comes to children's digital rights, a passion of mine, as with many other countries, we should be doing more. I cannot summarise this any better than Harvard professor Shoshana Zuboff, who says:

'Each day we send our children into this cowardly new world of surveillance economics, like innocent canaries into Big Tech’s coal mines. Citizens and lawmakers have stood silent, as hidden systems of tracking, monitoring, and manipulation ravage the private lives of unsuspecting kids and their families, challenging vital democratic principles for the sake of profits and power. This is not the promising digital century that we signed up for.'

This is very much the case here in Wales at times too. How many of us are aware that biometric data is being collected from children in schools with their fingerprints being gained in exchange for free school meals, or the classroom apps that collect not only academic data, but also behavioural data on our children? And there is much talk in the tech world now about the pros and cons of microchipping our children.

But there is some positive news, and that is that, on 2 March, the United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child adopted general comment No. 25 on the children's rights in relation to the digital environment. Its adoption makes explicit for the first time that children's rights apply in the digital world. Seven hundred and nine children and young people aged between nine and 22 years old were consulted in 26 countries on six continents. They want a more private, protective and transparent digital world, one that is age-appropriate and enabling of their interests, relationships and opportunities. And although general comments are non-binding and are not part of the UNCRC itself, I would ask that Welsh Government does all it can to incorporate children's digital rights into the children's rights scheme 2021. 

And also I would like to say as well—I would like to express my support for recommendation 15 in the 'Children's rights in Wales' report by the Children, Young People and Education Committee of the fifth Senedd, chaired by Lynne Neagle, which recommended that local authorities also have to do the children's risk assessments, especially when cuts are being made to services like free school bus travel. 

And finally, may I ask that the Welsh Government explores asking young people, possibly our Welsh Youth Parliament Members, for their views on digital rights and advancing data literacy, because what is consent if our children don't understand what they're signing up to, and if we as adults and politicians don't understand either? Children want and need to be online, but they need to be able to do so safely. All concerned must redouble their commitment to ensure their rights, including their rights to safety and privacy, are being upheld. 

I call on the Deputy Minister to respond to the debate. 

Diolch, and diolch, bawb, for your contributions to today's debate on the children's rights scheme. I'm very grateful for your continued support and scrutiny of our work, because, as Members have noted, children's rights are now more important than ever, as we've seen the profound effect the pandemic has had on children and young people, because children are less likely to be visible and less heard than adults, and, unless asked directly, they're unlikely to tell us how policies affect them. So, I'd like to thank the Members who contributed, and thank you, Gareth, very much, for your support for the scheme, and I'm very grateful for that strong support. But I note the points that you make. And, in terms of the pandemic, I'd like to make the point that the Welsh Government, jointly with the children's commissioner, did a huge survey of children and young people's views. I think, with the two surveys, that amounted to about 40,000 young people who responded about how the pandemic was affecting them. And that did directly influence how the Welsh Government acted then in response to the pandemic. So, I think it was a bit unfair, really, to say that we weren't listening to children during the pandemic, because that was a very important part of our work during the pandemic. And I suggest that he does look at the 2021-22 draft budget, to look at what the children's impacts are in relation to that. 

Sioned, I'd like to say how much I appreciated your really passionate support for children and for what you said, and I'm absolutely delighted to be working with your party to tackle the scourge of child poverty. And I really feel that free school meals and the extension of childcare to two-year-olds, which come under my portfolio, will have a real impact on the poverty of children in Wales, which I absolutely acknowledge is far too high. I also note what Sioned said about the tide of hate crime and how we have to stand up against that. And I'd like to draw Members' attention to the race equality strategy that is being produced by the Welsh Government, which is challenging, far reaching, and will make a really profound difference to children in Wales. 

And then finally, Sarah. Thank you very much, Sarah, for your comments. I'm very pleased for your support, particularly for the support to get rid of the reasonable punishment for children, and the words that you said about that. And also the very important points you made about digital, because it is important; there is a real need for young children to understand their rights online, and I'd certainly like to take up the proposals she made at the end of her speech, and perhaps that's something we can look at again.

So, thank you very much. I know I'm running out of time. I'm very grateful for the contributions today. The rights of children are at the heart of the Welsh Government and they influence everything we do and we intend to carry on doing that in all the policies we bring in, and I'd like to thank all Members across the Chamber for their support. Diolch.

The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

And that brings us  to voting time. In accordance with Standing Order 12.18, I will suspend the meeting before proceeding to voting time.

Plenary was suspended at 17:55.

The Senedd reconvened at 18:00, with the Deputy Presiding Officer in the Chair.