2. What discussions has the Welsh Government had with Cardiff Council regarding recycling rates in Cardiff? OQ57356

Thank you to Rhys ab Owen for the question. Ministers and officials have had direct discussions with Cardiff Council on their recycling performance, and those discussions are ongoing.

Thank you, First Minister. It is disappointing that recycling rates in Cardiff are amongst the worst in Wales. Of the three local authorities that failed to deliver the target of 64 per cent in the Waste (Wales) Measure 2010, Cardiff is the worst by far, at 55.8 per cent. And I’m sure that the closure of recycling centres in Wedal Road and Waungron Road in recent years has had a detrimental but expected impact on recycling rates. But it’s not just that the recycling rates are low, it’s not clear what kind of recycling is happening. It’s environmentally and economically important that waste is used here in Wales for different purposes rather than being exported, particularly, far too often, to deprived nations. So, how can we increase recycling rates in Cardiff and ensure that Welsh waste is recycled and repurposed here in Wales? Thank you.

Thank you for those supplementary questions. Cardiff Council is working hard to do more to get their recycling rates to the place where we would all want to see them. There will be a new strategy before the cabinet in Cardiff Council this week and, as I’m sure the Member knows, they are going to pilot a number of new approaches in Cardiff West, which I represent. In Radyr and Llandaff, in January, there will be a new system in place to try and put measures in place to improve the recycling rates in the city. Officials have worked hard with Cardiff Council to see what is behind these figures, and there are things that are particularly pertinent to Cardiff—the number of HMOs, for example, is challenging for Cardiff Council, but there is a new plan in place, and I am confident that that will have a positive impact on the figures.

And I know, Llywydd, that the Minister Julie James has responded to questions on the floor of the Assembly and has provided detailed information as to where recyclate goes. More than half of it is dealt with here in Wales, and around 30 per cent goes over the border to England, and there are some things that go abroad. But we do have plans to cut back the amount that is exported and to do more with all the things that we want to recycle here in Wales. 

I'm going to call Joel James now. 

Thank you, Llywydd. Cardiff Council, as the previous Member has explained, has fallen consistently short when meeting the recycling targets set out by the Welsh Government, and the council's predicted that it will have to invest in secondary recycling in order to meet them. Perversely, they do not have the budget to implement secondary recycling, and the council predicts that the estimated fine they will incur, because they are not meeting their recycling targets, will be in excess of £10 million by 2025. As the First Minister will no doubt agree, it is in everyone's interests to see Cardiff Council meet these recycling targets, and for the council to be able to invest in secondary recycling. Indeed, they could even generate revenue for themselves by making this investment and having access to high-quality recycling markets that this investment will open. Therefore, can the First Minister explain what funding is available to councils like Cardiff that allow them to make these improvements, and what investment has the Welsh Government made in obtaining access to these high-quality recycling markets that the Welsh economy could benefit from?

Well, I agree with the Member that there are opportunities for Cardiff as a local authority in doing what I know the local authority itself wants to do, and that is to diversify the policies that it has in place and to provide better services for its own residents, and indeed, potentially, to be able to provide services for others as well. I think I ought to explain, Llywydd, that a fining system is set out in our regulations. Ministers have discretion in this limited way: Ministers can decide either to fine in full or not to fine at all—there is no intermediate position available in our regulations, and nor do Ministers have discretion over the quantum of fining. That is determined by a formula that, again, the regulations set out. So, there is nothing inevitable about local authorities being fined, and, in the past, Ministers have always made judgments on the basis as to whether or not local authorities have credible plans in place to put themselves where the vast majority of local authorities are in Wales, and that is in compliance with the target.

Since devolution, Llywydd, the Welsh Government has invested £1 billion in household recycling, and a great deal of that money goes to local authorities to support them in creating the conditions in which the very good figures that we see in Wales exceed our target on a Wales-wide basis, with a number of local authorities exceeding the 70 per cent target that lies beyond us and wouldn't have been possible without a very significant investment. Cardiff has benefited from it, but it's a system that has to be fair to all local authorities and make sure that the progress—the very, very significant progress that all local authorities, including Cardiff, have made—can be sustained into the future.

As you can tell from some frantic changes of headphones on my part, I'm struggling with hearing everything that's going on at the moment, and that's a very dangerous position for a Llywydd to be in. So, I'm going to need to call a short technical break, and we'll resume as quickly as my issue can be resolved. So, a short technical break.

Plenary was suspended at 13:42.

The Senedd reconvened at 13:52, with the Llywydd in the Chair.