4. Statement by the Minister for Finance and Local Government: The Welsh Tax Acts etc. (Power to Modify) Bill

Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 3:59 pm on 14 December 2021.

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Photo of Llyr Gruffydd Llyr Gruffydd Plaid Cymru 3:59, 14 December 2021

(Translated)

Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I thank the Minister for her statement. Just to pick up on some of the previous comments on a finance Bill or an annual budget Bill, I still feel as I did when I chaired the Finance Committee in the previous Senedd that that is something I would certainly want us as a Senedd to move towards. I accept the Minister's comments on how quickly we can get to that point, but it's certainly a discussion that I would want to keep alive. And I also agree with the Minister, whether that happens or not, we still need the powers that the Government are seeking in the Bill before us today.

I've said in the past that I have no problem in principle with these kinds of powers being given to Welsh Ministers. It is entirely reasonable. Having the means to modify legislation at short notice in this way is something that I do think is reasonable, but it has to happen under particular circumstances. Failing to respond may lead to damaging or unfair implications. Under those circumstances, I think it's reasonable that we move in this direction. It is something that other Governments take for granted around the world. So, there is nothing unique in this.

Having said all of that, before we can support legislation that empowers Ministers in this way, we all have to be confident that the necessary restrictions are in place to ensure that the parameters are clear, first of all in terms of under which circumstances the Minister can act, secondly, to what extent the Government can act, and then thirdly of course, that there are strong measures in place to ensure timely parliamentary scrutiny and consent, or as soon as possible once the decision is made. At first sight, the legislation looks quite reasonable on those fronts, but obviously I look forward to scrutinising the proposed legislation over the next few weeks and months.

Just a few questions from me, Minister. There is a risk, of course—and we've perhaps seen this happen in other contexts—that, over time, powers like this can be used by Ministers to go beyond the authority provided to them. So, can you confirm on the record this afternoon that it's only under exceptional circumstances and only when there are no alternative options that you would intend to use the powers provided to Welsh Ministers in this Bill?

And also, in order to balance things slightly, what consideration have you given to including more independent voices or perspectives in the process of deciding to operate these powers? A suggestion has been made that there might be a more formal role for the Llywydd, perhaps, in the process. Cardiff University, in their response to the consultation last year, suggested that we need to ensure diversity in the group that decides when these powers should be used, and I'd be interested to hear how you intend to have some sort of balance within the process. Thank you.