Part of the debate – in the Senedd at 6:00 pm on 14 December 2021.
Diolch, Rhys. I welcome your support. In the previous Senedd, we had good cross-party working. Janet Finch-Saunders and our colleague David Melding, in particular, took an interest, and I'm absolutely certain that when the Bill comes forward, we'll be able to work collegiately across the Chamber on putting the very best safety regime in place for the future in Wales. As you rightly say, in the meantime, we wrestle with the legacy of the very poor regime that was in place that's caused all of these difficulties and, frankly, the absolutely appalling standard of workmanship and the cowboy gung-ho approach to safety that's clearly evidenced from many of these buildings. I am very grateful to the developers who have come forward and who have put at least some money on the table for some of the developments in Wales to begin the process of remediation. There are a number who have not. I am taking legal advice as to what exactly it is we can do about the ones that have not. You will be very familiar with the fact that many of these developments are put up by single-purpose vehicle companies; they aren't necessarily the holding company. It's very difficult to say that that particular company can't do work going forward, because you'll discover very quickly that, legally, it isn't the same company, and so on. So, it's very attractive, the proposition you put to me, but it turns out to be extremely difficult to do in practice, as I say, as these companies pop up all over the place and disappear again just as quickly.
Mike will be very well aware in Swansea of one particular case that could genuinely be used as an exam question on what can go wrong, because both the original builder, the second builder, all the insurers and several holding companies after that have all gone bankrupt, one after the other. So, it is really a lesson in how not to do building. We'll have all of those lessons very much in front of us when we look at our new regime but, in the meantime, we are left trying to sort out the labyrinthian twists and turns of the current situation, and that is why here in Wales, instead of having a blanket approach, we very much looked at it on a building-by-building basis, because each one of them is unique and different and, unfortunately, the complexity of that is why it's taking so long, and not because it's not right at the top of our agenda, I can assure you. Even right down to how we get the surveyors to come in and do the buildings in a sequential way that means that the price doesn't go through the roof as a result of market forces, and so on, has been a complexity. So, I assure you I am very keen to work across the Chamber on both of these aspects.
In terms of the UK Government, I'm very disappointed that we haven't been able to get clarity on some of the announcements they've made. But, more recently, we've worked very well together on a number of aspects of leaseholder reform, and so on, the subject of a legislative consent motion later on today. It is very important to understand that leasehold is one of the most complicated areas of devolution, with some of it devolved and some of it not devolved, and the ragged edges of devolution being very evident. So, having to navigate your way through all of that is something I really feel sorry for the leaseholders in doing, and that's why I'm very happy to offer as much technical briefing as we can to help people navigate these very stormy waters.