3. What assessment has the Minister made of the impact on animal welfare of Natural Resources Wales's decision to ban trail hunting on its land? OQ57362

Thank you. Natural Resources Wales falls under the Minister for Climate Change's remit. However, its decision to ban trail hunting on the Welsh Government woodland estate was a matter for them, and the Welsh Government has made no assessment of the impact on animal welfare of such a ban.

Thank you, Minister. The Hankinson case highlighted how trail hunting had become a smokescreen for the illegal hunting of live quarry, and, just four days ago, the master of the Western Hunt was successfully prosecuted under the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 for an incident that again occurred on the pretence of trail hunting. I'd like to echo the request made to you by my colleague Joyce Watson in the business statement last week: will Welsh Government commit to a ban on trail hunting on all public land, which is clearly necessary if we are to uphold the highest animal welfare standards in Wales?

Well, that would be a matter for the Minister for Climate Change, but I know—I've had discussions with her and, certainly, in light of the recent court judgment, this is something that she will consider carefully, but I believe the Welsh Government would support the consideration of a permanent ban on trail hunting by those responsible for publicly owned land in Wales.

Minister, judging by your response, then, it is widely known and accepted that the Labour Party running the Welsh Government has little understanding of the rural way of life or the countryside, and I believe that the recent Natural Resources Wales decision to ban trail hunting on its land is the wrong one. Trail hunting is not hunting, which was banned in the Hunting Act 2004. Trail hunting is a perfectly lawful activity; it does not involve the pursuit of mammals. So, this ban will have no impact on animal welfare, as has been referred to by yourself and the other Member. The scaremongering on this topic has been rife. This NRW ruling is another attack on the rural way of life by Government organisations and woke individuals trying to end rural traditions by spreading falsehoods. Will the Minister now meet with myself, Natural Resources Wales and relevant stakeholders to have an informed discussion and to look at the evidence and resolve this poor decision? Diolch, Deputy Llywydd.

I disagree with the majority of what the Member said, and no, I won't meet with him, because, as I say, this is a matter for the Minister for Climate Change.

I know the RSPCA is also concerned that trail hunting is acting like a smokescreen, allowing fox hunting to continue. For Members who aren't aware of how this works, trail hunting involves using the urine, body parts or carcasses of foxes, deer or hares being laid on a trail for dogs to follow, and, although traditional hunts, as we've heard, have been banned, training hounds to follow these scents can lead to animals like foxes being disturbed and killed if the dogs pick up the scent of a live animal. Trail hunting isn't meant to involve foxes being killed, but, again, as we've heard, a high-profile conviction has recently highlighted that trail hunting has been used to hide illegal hunting for years. And, besides, the use of a scent of dead animals is surely utterly unnecessary when alternatives like drag hunting exists, which allows hounds to follow an artificial scent not derived from carcasses or body parts. Minister, it's surely beneath the dignity of human beings to take pleasure from the death of another creature. Will you, please, look at ways, with your colleagues—hearing what you've just said—to persuade other landowners in the immediate weeks to outlaw trail hunting, particularly ahead of Boxing Day, when these parades happen? 

As I said in my earlier answer to Vikki Howells, this is a matter for the Minister for Climate Change, but I think, in light of the recent court judgment, that is something she will consider carefully, ensuring that there is a permanent ban on trail hunting by those responsible for publicly owned land in Wales.